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How now brown cow

AfDs for this article:

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Not notable. Fails WP:WORDISSUBJECT. Nardog (talk) 22:59, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Passes WP:WORDISSUBJECT. It's well known, it's discussed in sources, both serious and comedic. Just "Not notable" is a cliche of arguments to avoid in AfDs. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This phrase has SIGCOV in multiple scholarly articles/books for its role in elocution instruction. Passes WP:GNG. Dclemens1971 (talk) 23:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you tell us what those are? I'm not seeing significant coverage in the sources currently cited. Nardog (talk) 00:08, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there anything to say about it beyond "It's a phrase sometimes used to teach diphthongs"? If so, what? If not, maybe it should be merged to Elocution or something. Cnilep (talk) 01:03, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Elocution. Looking at the available sources in the current article and the AfD from 15 years ago, the available sources are almost exclusively uses of the phrase in elocution lessons. I don't see how we're going to get around the overreliance on primary sources, and I don't think this meets WP:WORDISSUBJECT. hinnk (talk) 01:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete There's no proof it passes WORDISSUBJECT, as the two "keep" !voters have simply done a WP:SOURCESEXIST. Previous AfDs have not given proof either besides pointing to Google and saying "there must be sources out there!" Hint: there are none. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ Delete I very recently used this article to assure a colleague I wasn't slurring him. I know that's not Wikipedia's express purpose. But it's not expressly not, either. I'd wager there are other situations where this pagelink might be useful. Plus, it's a "thing people say", so typing it should get them something here. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:20, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I mean, that is in fact expressly not Wikipedia's purpose. If you think there should be something there, demonstrating how it meets the notability guideline or recommending a reasonable alternative to deletion would be more useful than a WP:USEFUL argument. hinnk (talk) 21:08, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I meant the purpose of assuring colleagues we aren't slurring them. I get how encyclopedias aren't dictionaries. There's not much here, but it's already more than a straight definition. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I fail to see how the article helps one determine whether it can be a slur (or its pertinence to GNG). Nardog (talk) 21:35, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's because you haven't pictured my colleague here as a black guy. And I'm not trying to say it passes GNG. Lots of subjects on this site don't; not as many survive two prior AfDs. Your "not notable" and my "it's useful" are both poor arguments. So we're even. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:48, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See here for backstory, now that you're "in on" the (half)joke. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:57, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By "not notable" I mean I'm unable to find reliable sources demonstrating significant coverage. Nardog (talk) 22:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I get it, trust me. I saw Pierre Viette with his so-called Ethmia pylonotella and Lorymodes australis earlier today, too. Sometimes the Inclusionists just win. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:52, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

People can also go to a phrasebook to look it up, the question is how an encyclopedia article expands on that. So far, nobody has come up with anything, and the only keep arguments are that the article seems useful and that sufficient amounts of votes will allow the "inclusionists" to win easily. See WP:NOTAVOTE. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:51, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Don't forget WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Stuff like Chōjirō, Claude Sionnest and Floating Foundation of Photography stick around despite the guidelines, with far more uncited material and far less attention. I'm not saying it's a good argument, but I did employ it. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:19, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I haven't seen any Deletionists ever explain why burning this iffy little obscurity (or any other like it) might help. Help who? Do what? So many questions. I'm willing to change my tune for one good answer. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If standards are not enforced on Wikipedia by removing failing articles, then it sets a precedent that almost anything is allowed - ultimately dragging down the quality of the encyclopedia. People who regularly create AfDs (I hesitate to say "deletionists", because it implies an urge to delete everything) are often stereotyped as enjoying tearing down other people's work and being OCD about annihilating the encyclopedia. On the contrary, they are attempting to increase the quality of the encyclopedia by helping editors not waste their time on unsalvageable, unhelpful articles, and dedicate it to ones with heavy potential for improvement. Notability failing articles are often rife with original research and inaccuracy due to the inability to find enough sources. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:26, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sold The amount of unsalvageable and unhelpful articles I've Randombuttoned into just since we've met has been pretty tragic, and enough is enough. I'm still glad this potential waste of someone else's time helped me when it did, though. That was then. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:21, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is exactly about how that is not an excuse to keep content. Coupled with the false dichotomy between GNG and WP:USEFUL, you seem to have a penchant for arguing against your own stated position.

I'm as much an inclusionist as the next person as long as I see more than passing coverage in reliable sources. In fact I nominated it precisely because I had questions about the phrase and I couldn't find answers in our article or reliable sources. We owe it to ourselves to keep out of the encyclopedia topics we have nothing to write about. I'll happily switch sides as soon as you show us reliable sources that don't just use, but discuss, the phrase to any meaningful extent. Nardog (talk) 13:13, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:21, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Weak keep, but rewrite~~ Delete "How now brown cow" is adequately covered in enough sources to meet WP:SIGCOV, if only barely. It is discussed [1] here on JSTOR (albeit indirectly) and [2] here on Sage. The article as it is is very short and minimally sourced, and lacks sources that establish SIGCOV: one of the three is WP:USERG. Given the consensus with Irregardless, which I nominated for deletion, the coverage this has as a linguistic subject seems sufficient for an article. Like Irregardless, the article should be expanded to use the phrase as a case study for elocution, like how Irregardless is used as a case study for prescriptivist and descriptivist linguistics. Needs a complete rewrite, but seems to fulfil WP:SIGCOV and WP:WORDISSUBJECT - again, if only just. Reconsidering these sources and comments below, the coverage here is so meagre I don't think it passes WP:WORDISSUBJECT anymore. The sources for Irregardless at least directly mentioned the word, but these don't. I think it would still maybe be possible to similarly use "how now brown cow" to discuss the teaching of diphthongs, but its coverage in reliable secondary sources is probably not sufficient. The article is also so short there would be no point in merging to Elocution. Masskito (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 22:19, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How is it "discussed"? The phrase is nowhere to be found aside from the title in either of those sources. There's not even a mention, let alone discussion. How do you suggest the article be rewritten when those are the best sources you can find? Nardog (talk) 06:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

+1: These pieces use the phrase in their titles, but they don't discuss it. They discuss phonemic awareness, not this phrase as such. Cnilep (talk) 08:08, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I don't see a consensus here yet. But this AFD can be closed at any time.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Premier Energies Limited

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The subject is receiving attention due to its recent IPO. Anyways, after searching for in-depth coverage from independent, reliable secondary sources, I was unable to find any. The cited sources are trivial, as per WP:ORGTRIV, and the subject does not meet the criteria outlined in WP:NCORP or WP:GNG. GrabUp - Talk 13:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I have tried to find old news which are not for the IPO, that was before. It might be more coverage due to IPO but I guess we will get more and more updates in coming months as this a listed company now. Njoy deep (talk) 12:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify the situation might change within a few months seeing the amount of coverage around the IPO. Broc (talk) 13:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with the points, due to IPO many news are around that too. Njoy deep (talk) 12:28, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Is there more support for draftification?
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List of entertainment events at the United Center

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the United Center (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. -- mikeblas (talk) 15:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at Canada Life Centre

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Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Canada Life Centre (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 15:46, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at Scotiabank Arena

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Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Scotiabank Arena (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. -- mikeblas (talk) 15:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at the Araneta Center

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the Araneta Center (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 15:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at Kia Forum

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Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Kia Forum (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 15:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at the Sydney SuperDome

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Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the Sydney SuperDome (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Weak statement of inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 16:04, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:12, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at Rod Laver Arena

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Rod Laver Arena (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Indirect statement of inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 16:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. As suggested, the list as a group is not notable. Fails WP:NLIST. Spinifex&Sand (talk) 22:17, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at Perth Arena

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Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Perth Arena (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. No explanation of inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 16:12, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at Crypto.com Arena

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Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Crypto.com Arena (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. No specific statement of inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 16:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Indeed a case of failing WP:NLIST. Also, notable entertainers and events are already discussed on the arena's main page, so having a list of each and every one is superfluous. TH1980 (talk) 00:14, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at The OVO Hydro

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Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at The OVO Hydro (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 16:22, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at Spark Arena

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Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Spark Arena (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. No specific statement of inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 16:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at the O2 Arena

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Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the O2 Arena (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Weakly stated inclusion criteria does not match title. mikeblas (talk) 15:59, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 September 12. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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List of entertainment events at Rogers Arena

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Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Rogers Arena (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Weak statement of inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 16:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 16:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Gale Force Nine

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Fails WP:ORGCRIT or WP:GNG. There is nothing from the article or BEFORE that suggests notability on any ground. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:07, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Epic Horror film

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This does not appear to be a well-defined subgenre of horror films and, as a consequence, the article is rather vague. As the article explains, this new term was invented in 2024 by author and screenwriter Willow Summers who does not appear to be anywhere close to notable so it's not surprising that the neologism hasn't caught on. Pichpich (talk) 22:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of ex officio delegates to the 2006 Liberal Party of Canada leadership election

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As per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Endorsements for the 2006 Liberal Party of Canada leadership election, this is also a poorly sourced list that essentially constitutes WP:TRIVIA rather than information of enduring significance. There isn't a similar article for any other leadership convention in the entire history of Canadian politics, so this is essentially standing alone, but there's no particular reason why being an ex officio delegate to this leadership convention would be a special case of greater significance than all the other leadership conventions that don't have sibling lists.
A political party's incumbent and still-living former senators and MPs would simply be expected to be ex officio delegates to the leadership convention, so that being true here doesn't constitute news -- and apart from the senators and MPs, the overwhelming majority of other people listed here are unelected candidates and party apparatchiks who aren't independently notable at all, alongside a very large number of entries whose "occupant" is still listed as just the word "Name" itself, rather than the actual name of any specific individual person. The list, further, contains hundreds of directly-embedded-in-open-text offsite links (which is not proper formatting for a list) to primary sources (which are not support for notability), with very little WP:GNG-worthy reliable sourcing shown at all.
This simply isn't of anywhere near enough uniquely enduring significance to warrant being retained in this form. If sibling lists for other Canadian political party leadership conventions don't consistently exist across the board, then this one is not more special than all of the others, especially not with bad sourcing and incomplete content but not even if either of those issues could be resolved. Bearcat (talk) 17:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I'm not sure why the 2006 Liberal leadership is so deserving of an article; to be honest the leader was rather ho-hum and doesn't have much lasting impact in Canadian politics 20 years on... This does seem like trivia. There are hardly any coverage of this event in my searches, other than brief articles about who was running at the time. Oaktree b (talk) 22:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Thieves' Labyrinth

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A novel that I cannot find enough sources for it to pass the WP:GNG or WP:NBOOK. I think the Historical Novel Society source can be considered reliable, but the "eurocrime" site does not appear to be one, meaning there is only a single potentially reliable source here. I have tried various searches, but have been unable to find any kind of actual reviews or coverage that goes beyond a name-drop in reliable sources of any kind. The closest I found was this article on Kirkus, but the top states that it is a Sponsored Blog post, and so cannot count as a review for the purposes of establishing notability. Neither the author nor book series has an article, so I was unable to identify any potential Redirect or Merge target, and with only one source, it does not pass the WP:GNG or WP:NBOOK. As it does have the one source, I figured I would bring it to AFD rather than simply WP:PRODing it, to see if anyone else could find any other potentially reliable sources or reviews for it. Rorshacma (talk) 17:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Literature and United Kingdom. Rorshacma (talk) 17:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It's very odd that we have an article on the third book and none of the others. Other books in the series have reviews, ones on Proquest from the Lincolnshire Echo, the Times Literary Supplement, this that I am unsure of the reliability of, this interview by a major publisher. A series article could probably be stitched together from these, instead of covering the individual books, but I don't have strong feelings here. Also according to this source "James McCreet" is actually a pseudonym of Matt Stanley. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into an article about the three book series using the sources identified above. The Kirkus review may be usable as the blog is by an experienced writer "J. Kingston Pierce is both the editor of The Rap Sheet and the senior editor of January Magazine." There was an article about the author James McCreet and articles about the other two books in the series but they were all deleted as promotional under speedy deletion criteria G11. I missed the speedy deletion of the other articles but objected to the deletion of this one and edited out the promotional content. The author article was restored to userspace here, Atlantic306 (talk) 22:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. I see a Merge suggested but no existing target article identified. If the article doesn't exist, it can't be a target article.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:58, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Provincial road 34-12 (Turkey)

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Unsourced and only 7 km long so does not deserve own article - no objection if anyone merges it Chidgk1 (talk) 17:49, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and Turkey. Chidgk1 (talk) 17:49, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. If you are suggesting a Merge or Redirect, please provide a link to the suggested target article.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:56, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

George V. Grigore

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I have carried out WP:BEFORE on this previously-unreferenced article about a Romanian actor, journalist, writer and university lecturer. I have added three references, but all are mentions of his name only. According to the article in the Romanian Wikipedia (also unreferenced), he has written 29 articles, but I can't find reviews of them. I don't think he meets WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO, WP:NACTOR, WP:NACADEMIC, WP:NJOURNALIST, etc. Tacyarg (talk) 18:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 21:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deadbeat Films

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Not a notable film studio, as its IMDb entry clearly shows. Tellingly, none of the cited sources even mention the studio. Additionally, notability is not inherited from films that the studio happened to be involved in. SuperMarioMan (Talk) 22:18, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete : Per nominator's reason. Came across the page and had to make my own find out. The notable movies never claimed in any reliable source that Deadbeat Films was their movie studio production. Maybe reason why it was not even listed on the IMDB platform. So many unreliable source which also fails WP:GNG of the subject article.--Gabriel (……?) 22:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, I'm an intern working for the studio itself. As per my other comment, I apologize about the source misinformation. I'm doing my best to improve it, but I'm still incredibly new to this internship and even Wikipedia editing itself. I request more time for it to get fixed up. We're all very busy, so it will take some time, but it will be improved. If anything, some tips on how to improve it would be fantastic. Thanks! MNLewis21 (talk) 18:59, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Hey, I'm an intern working for the studio itself. It's just smaller than what we're used to and it's in England. I'm not entirely sure where you live, but I definitely think it's more Indie British than anything Well Known American. I've just been hired on, and I believe part of my job is to freshen up and work on the various Wikipedia pages for the studio, its films, and its employees. Another intern started what I'm working on right now. It's a bunch of busy people on board and just needs its due time to cook in the oven. Thanks! MNLewis21 (talk) 18:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Can you further explain more about your internal team and their works towards Wikipedia they intend to get started on. You mentioned some of your colleagues has started what you were currently working on. Can you as well list those draft. That will help. Also is the current article creator of the “Deadbeat Films” part of your internal team. Things needs to be clearer. Gabriel (……?) 19:12, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest I'm not entirely sure, unfortunately. I believe the one who initially wrote and researched the articles relating to the studio and its employees has left the company since they were also an intern, but I can't quite confirm that. I've been keeping in touch with my employer Brook Driver, a creative director and screenwriter for the studio, about the articles' status and the advice I'm receiving (thank you very much, by the way). They're still trying to kickstart getting their online presence more well known and complete. As for drafts within the studio itself I don't have access to that just yet. MNLewis21 (talk) 19:22, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was the one that created the initial Wikipedia article for Deadbeat Films. I was an intern under Brook Driver at the time and designed this page. The creation of the page was done for no compensation and was based upon research of my own in an attempt to avoid biases and to follow the terms and rules of Wikipedia. I do acknowledge though that this was the first page I had ever created, so any issues present are all my own. I am willing to assist in any way I can in fixing the page if possible. I do believe that the company does meet the standards of having a Wikipedia page, especially when looking at pages for other previously released independent films. This article from TheGuardian directly talks about their recent film Swede Caroline and namedrops Brook Driver specifically: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2024/apr/17/swede-caroline-review-marrow-mockumentary-is-gourd-for-a-laugh This article from Little Black Book specifically discusses the merging of Deadbeat Films with Toma Productions (Direct connection to The Devil's Harmony): https://lbbonline.com/news/deadbeat-films-appoints-anthony-toma-as-head-of-production CFORMAN12 (talk) 15:50, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The official Swede Caroline poster also does feature the Deadbeat Films logo on it: https://www.swedecaroline.com/synopsis/ CFORMAN12 (talk) 15:52, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those sources fail to demonstrate the notability of the studio. The Guardian source is a film review, not a company profile, and doesn't mention "Deadbeat Films" anywhere. As I stated in the AfD nomination, the studio doesn't gain notability from its people or products. Unless I'm mistaken, the LLB source looks like a press release. And the film website is, similarly, not an independent source. SuperMarioMan (Talk) 17:56, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On the note of communication with Brook himself: I'm in America and he is in England, so the time zones have a large gap in between them. We are doing our best to communicate in a timely manner despite this hurdle. MNLewis21 (talk) 19:25, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as we have one COI editor who I think we can view as an unbolded Keep, Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew Ellis (police commissioner)

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Local elected officials are not notable through WP:NPOL, the one source listed is a run of the mill election report, which does not contribute to the subject passing WP:GNG. -Samoht27 (talk) 21:07, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per WP:OFFICEHOLDER. The article is short and needs updating but is about a holder of a notable office who held the post for two terms. This discussion has been had on previous occasions, but do note that the office of police commissioners in the UK is different to that of a police commissioner in the United States. This is Paul (talk) 22:12, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PCCs (including this one) have received significant press coverage, albeit often on a local level. A police constituency can cover a population of several hundred thousand, or even into the millions. Indeed, the population of the Staffordshire area is around 1.146 million. Compare that to a Member of Parliament, whose constituency contains roughly 76,000 people, and a London Assembly member, whose constituency covers less than a million. Consequently it is a notable post, and the holder of it is likely to attract ongoing media attention, thus making them notable. As I have said previously, the consensus at the time these offices were created was that they were notable in the same way we create articles for every MP, MSP, Member of the Senedd and so on. I've also suggested that perhaps what is needed is a wider debate on how we deal with articles about people who hold these posts. This is Paul (talk) 22:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing in NPOL that covers police and crime commissioners. AusLondonder (talk) 00:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's something we should address though because these articles get nominated for AfD from time to time, and there's no clear guidelines for them. While they're not at the level of MPs they're also not at the level of local councillors. This is Paul (talk) 17:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

delete per WP:OFFICEHOLDER. A police commissioner at this level is unlikely to attract coverage beyond routine spokesbeing reporting, and there's no claim of that in the article. Possibly he could be redirected to the list of officeholders if must but personally I'm not inclined to take AtD as a requirement. Mangoe (talk) 22:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:30, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Looking at sources, which ones provide SIGCOV?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:33, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Greg Schiemer

AfDs for this article:

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Last AfD was no consensus. Renominating as per previous statement: Fails WP:MUSICBIO. Most of the supplied sources are not WP:SIGCOV about him LibStar (talk) 23:38, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Australia. LibStar (talk) 23:38, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete. Links appear when you do a basic Google search. However as per nominator, I also think those may not meet WP:SIGCOV criteria. Prof.PMarini (talk) 00:58, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Already at AFD before so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I think some of the sources given in the article can count as SIGCOV, and as long as you have some sources that are SIGCOV, that many of the sources are just trivial mentions make no difference to the subject's notability. I can also see his works being mentioned in books and journals - [3][4][5], while those may not be considered in-depth discussions of his works (but not quite trivial either), they do show that he is known enough to be considered someone noteworthy. Hzh (talk) 22:52, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep honestly, I don't see a big problem with the article. It seems to be a musical artist. It maintains reliable sources reasonably concise, unlike other articles that do not have it and is more verifiable. On the other hand, the content, at least in its current form, does not seem to me to be bad enough to remain on Wikipedia, perhaps that is precisely what gives it a more encyclopedic tone. --Alon9393 (talk) 16:15, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep This one is definitely boarder line and could go either way. I think there are just enough RS references to justify keeping the article, but would not object if there was a consensus among editors to delete. Go4thProsper (talk) 06:58, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. I see this closing as a No consensus but as I closed the first AFD, I'll let another admin handle this one.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eight Sleep

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Clearly a soft "infomercial" on WP that is not notable. Normchou ^💬 20:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Sources 7 and 12 are product reviews, that don't appear to be paid promotional items. Why PC Mag is reviewing a bedding system is beyond me, but they're both RS per Source Highlighter, so are fine. I think we can establish notability with these and the other sources given. Oaktree b (talk) 20:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Needs a bit of cleanup but I think the product is notable enough. Pablo (talk) 12:06, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This is a company therefore GNG/WP:NCORP requires at least two deep or significant sources with each source containing "Independent Content" showing in-depth information *on the company*. "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. I'm unable to identify any references that meet the criteria for establishing notability of the *company*. If someone believes the product is notable and wants to write an article about the product is is likely going to be under a different named article. HighKing⁺⁺ 11:56, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Which sources help establish WP:NCORP?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christine Warnke

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non-notable, subject has held several local, insiginficant and largely inconsequential appointments. Article reeks of puffery and edits by interested parties Bangabandhu (talk) 19:47, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Women, and Washington, D.C.. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:30, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I corrected one source and did searches online, and found lots of potential sources. The facts check out, for example her alumni award, White House arts commission, Real Estate commissioner for DC, hobnobbing, etc. She’s well known in the lobbying industry in the capital of the United States, and isn’t merely a local celebrity. Oddly, I can’t find a source confirming that she’s on the DNC. Bearian (talk) 11:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alumni award is of no significance, neither is nomination to the real estate commission. She's got invited to some parties and was appointed to a board, all typical of white collar lawyers in DC. No in depth coverage exists in any single article and she's never done anything remarkable enough to merit a profile. She's not on the Democratic National Committee, she has a position on the DC Democratic State Committee, which is about as insignificant a position in local politics as exists. Bangabandhu (talk) 01:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, I'd like to hear from more editors on this one.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:27, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christiane Wolf

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She's evidently done commendable work, such as the VA program, but I can't find significant coverage of her, or reviews of her books in reliable sources, to meet WP:NAUTHOR, WP:BIO or WP:GNG. She's also worked with some notable people, but on Wikipedia notability is not inherited. Wikishovel (talk) 18:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete unless evidence is produced that her publications have received enough attention. Xxanthippe (talk) 06:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC).[reply]
Delete. I think this article is produced to create attention. --Dioskorides (talk) 09:37, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep: Two of the references are podcasts by notable people (Dan Harris and Sharon Salzberg), there is a book review in Spirituality & Health and some coverage in a Taos News article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nnev66 (talk • contribs) Nnev66 (talk) 14:32, 9 September 2024 (UTC) (belatedly signing)[reply]

I’m with the Weak keep. She’s appeared on podcasts, was noted on the official VA website, and in other sources. I would not call this really substantial, though, more of a bare bones coverage. Bearian (talk) 11:25, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Filled to the brim with primary sources and not enough independent sources to sustain a biography; the single book review is not enough. Appearing on podcasts is not a criterion for notability. Geschichte (talk) 08:01, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Limentra di Sambuca

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Unsourced stub about a minor Italian river. Sources seem to exist either as trivial mentions or database entries with name and coordinates, as described as failing wp:NATFEAT. I can maybe see a merge into Reno (river), but that article is also essentially unreferenced. Lenny Marks (talk) 20:57, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I have also nominated the following article: Limentra orientale (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) as a bundled nomination, as it is was creted by the same Wikipedian and is essentially in the same exact circumstances as this article, but is about a different tributary of the same river. Neither one appears to be notable enough for its own page. --Lenny Marks (talk) 21:12, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Kian Breckin

AfDs for this article:

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Bringing this here for discussion since Draft:Kian Breckin and Draft:Kian Breckin (footballer) had been declined on multiple occasions, and the editor who created the mainspace version has some problematic creations. I feel like this needs discussion to see if Breckin is notable. Star Mississippi 20:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and England. Star Mississippi 20:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – Sufficiently referenced to pass in WP:GNG and this version is better than the others as it contains at least one example of WP:SIGCOV and passes under the WP:NSPORT due to the other coverage. EnglishDude98 21:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Young Jimmy

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This autobiography was unilaterally moved to mainspace against the WP:COIEDIT guideline. There is coverage of his songs sourced in the article, but the short length and promotional tone (e.g. as seen here) makes it pretty clear these articles are derived from press releases, and are therefore not independent. Mach61 19:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and New York. Mach61 19:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't take the time to read all the edits on the article clearly, you just found this article made a few deletion edits and decided to nominate it for deletion all in a rush to judgement. It only took you a day. This article was cut short by another biased editor thats why its short. All of the articles are independent sources check again. Youngjimmymusic88 (talk) 21:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And why is the deletion template missing, that's a no-no. Oaktree b (talk) 22:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your website is hardly independent. The rest are about as unhelpful in proving notability. Oaktree b (talk) 22:57, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I've restored the AfD template. Don't remove it until this discussion is done. Oaktree b (talk) 22:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Hardly any coverage in RS. Source is a RS, but it's barely half a page... That's all I can find [6], rest are non-RS, mostly primary sourcing. This person seems to be using wiki as PROMO. No charted singles, no awards won, not much of any kind of indication that this person is notable for our purposes here. Oaktree b (talk) 22:56, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: 400 subscribers on youtube and 100 something daily listens on spotify do not indicate notability, further proving my point. Oaktree b (talk) 22:59, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SeamlessHR

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After speedy deletion for being promotional and then numerous declines at AfC, SPA feels this is notable and moved to the mainspace so here we are. References fail WP:ORGCRIT and a WP:BEFORE only finds mentions, self-promotion (e.g., interviews), and routine announcements. CNMall41 (talk) 19:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies and Nigeria. CNMall41 (talk) 19:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Nothing to establish WP:ORGCRIT here. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: after a several-page search on Google, all I could find was either the company page or mentions on other company pages (WP:GNG). Failure of WP:ORGCRIT as well. Sir MemeGod  21:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lesotho Women's League

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No evidence this Lesotho football league meets WP:NORG or WP:NSPORT. There's no WP:SIGCOV in reliable, independent, secondary sources. (In contesting the PROD, the page creator said "I want to recall that this article is a stub and not an article with a high coverage so I don't think it should be deleted," which is not a particularly strong rationale for keeping an article about a non-notable subject.) Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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John-Paul Tran

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WP:TOOSOON for an article at the moment. This article should wait until there is some actual WP:SIGCOV of the subject, who is still a child athlete. JTtheOG (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Martial arts, and California. JTtheOG (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Could not find any coverage besides a singular mention [7] (not including the 1 source on the article). Fails WP:NATHLETE. Sir MemeGod  21:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would also support draftification per the nomination until Tran gets more coverage. Sir MemeGod  21:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: No coverage found, and a long way from being a notable athlete for our purposes here. I don't even thing drafting would help, still a young competitor, not competing on the national level Oaktree b (talk) 23:03, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eric Kessler

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Of the five sources cited, only one is actually about Kessler, and it's an interview. A Google News search yielded some obituaries about other people with the same name, and this article, but that's all. This could be merged into Arabella Advisors but there's really nothing of value to merge. ~Anachronist (talk) 19:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Delete Per shit sources and the WP:TEA request. Babysharkboss2!! ^{(No Life 'Til Leather)} 19:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Babysharkboss2: What criterion for speedy deletion do you think this meets? jlwoodwa (talk) 19:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Like nom, I come by way of the request at the Teahouse from someone claiming to be Kessler (I know this doesn't affect the discussion; just saying for transparency). And like nom, I have done my own search and failed to find WP:SIGCOV in RS. Because I can't decide which would be the better redirect target—Arabella Advisors or the Hopewell Fund that it manages—I am !voting for straightforward deletion. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 19:44, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Politics, and Washington, D.C.. Skynxnex (talk) 20:38, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete there's almost enough sourcing for article. Probably not right now and I weigh good faith requests for deletion in cases like this fairly highly. I would oppose a redirect since there are other Eric Kesslers mentioned in various articles as they're all dab mentions, a dab page would be questionable as well, for now. Skynxnex (talk) 20:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2022 Kirin Cup Soccer squads

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We typically don't keep squads from the many invitational or smaller-scale tournaments around the world. I found some precedents for deletion here, here, here and here, and others too I'm sure. Geschichte (talk) 19:12, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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People's Liberation Party-Front of Turkey/Revolutionary Coordination Union

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As can be seen from the cite on the Turkish article this was just one of many many far left parties in Turkey. What makes this one notable? Chidgk1 (talk) 17:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: +Move to a shorter name such as "People's Liberation Party-Front of Turkey (not a combination of multiple names). There's vast coverage of THKP-C: [8][9] Searching other names might return even more sources. Aintabli (talk) 16:50, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 19:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mesklin

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Non-notable article about a location composed of unreliable or primary sources. For WP:Before, a search showed only trivial mentions and in-universe plot summaries, without significant coverage or reception. Jontesta (talk) 18:46, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to Mission of Gravity. Some part of the text can be salvaged, and the novel is the main "user" of Mesklin. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Mesklin gets a fair amount of discussion in literature about science fiction (mostly in the context of Mission of Gravity). It is generally considered a (or even the) prototypical example of hard science fiction worldbuilding. Some examples:
- The Dictionary of Science Fiction Places p. 199
- The Visual Encyclopedia of Science Fiction p. 87
- The Science in Science Fiction p. 56
- How Space Physics Really Works: Lessons from Well-Constructed Science Fiction p. 31
- A Companion to Science Fiction p. 195

There are also things like "Applying Science to Fiction: A Look at the Fictional Planet Mesklin" (which I am unfortunately not able to read the full text of), and much, much more is available by simply searching for "Mesklin" at the Internet Archive (I haven't read it in full, but the first hit leads to Donald M. Hassler's chapter "The Irony in Hal Clement's World Building" in Science Fiction Dialogues, which covers Mesklin for several pages). I don't think WP:Notability is seriously in question here, and there's certainly an argument to be made that the fictional planet gets more attention as the point of focus in the secondary literature than the story it first appeared in. TompaDompa (talk) 13:19, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per Clarityfiend to Mission of Gravity. WP:BEFORE shows that the reception of the novel its science are covered in the same scope. Both articles are under sourced and will improve through a merge, per WP:ATD. Shooterwalker (talk) 19:02, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Update I have located a fair number of sources providing coverage of Mesklin and have begun the process of rewriting and expanding the article based on these sources. Based on what I have found, I think merging this article with the Mission of Gravity article would be misguided. At minimum, I would suggest relisting this discussion to give more time for rewriting and expanding the article so we can make as informed a decision on the matter as possible. TompaDompa (talk) 21:55, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Merge to Mission of Gravity as not requiring a split. Coverage of it in secondary sources appears trivial. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Mission of Gravity: per Clarityfiend. I did find some coverage (particularly from Harvard Uni), which is why I'd support a merge rather then a flat-out deletion. Sir MemeGod  20:03, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Graham Urquhart

AfDs for this article:

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This article was refunded following soft deletion (see previous discussion here). Despite being refunded nearly a year ago, there's no addition of WP:SIGCOV, and none could be found in a search. Without WP:SIGCOV, this subject fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. (Meanwhile, the subject appears to have been dropped from the Tasman Mako squad, so additional coverage is not likely to be forthcoming.) Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:47, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I am unable to find anything approaching SIGCOV. JTtheOG (talk) 01:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC) JTtheOG (talk) 01:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: per WP:SIGCOV. Sir MemeGod  20:01, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IC 167

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Could not find any individual coverage on this object. Should redirect to List of IC objects. Sir MemeGod  18:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Agam Manohar Pandit

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This biography of a businessman and former youth cricketer fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. There is no WP:SIGCOV of Pandit, only WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS of his participation on a team, and no WP:SIGCOV of his business career either. At best it's WP:BLP1E for the U-15 Cricket World Cup (but that's not even a valid redirect since there's no page on that competition), but even then he doesn't qualify for a standalone page. Contested PROD. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect. He did play cricket at senior domestic level for Goa, making two first-class and List A appearances apiece; however, he didn't do much in these matches. A redirect to List of Goa cricketers is a suitable WP:ATD. AA (talk) 20:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per nom. All sources are very poor with stat, an entry, passing mention about sitting out of the game, another passing mention that just says, Agam Pandit and ADC Energy Prepare for COP28, and last one about being appointed as selector and the end note of this source says "The above press release has been provided by VMPL. ANI will not be responsible in any way for the content of the same." There is no significant coverage of his role as businessman. No significant achievements noteworthy nationally and internationally to satisfy notability about the subject role as cricketer. Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:NBIO, WP:NSPORT. RangersRus (talk) 22:18, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sonmati

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I couldn't find sources to verify this information Boleyn (talk) 18:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at the Little Caesars Arena

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the Little Caesars Arena (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Stated inclusion criteria does not match title. mikeblas (talk) 15:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Daon, Inc.

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Fails to meet WP:NCORP. Sources are all trivial mentions of the company. Brandon (talk) 15:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies, Software, and Ireland. Brandon (talk) 15:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Comment~~. I haven't yet completed a full WP:BEFORE (to establish whether there are other/independent/reliable sources "out there" which can establish notability and support the text). But, per nom, the sources within the article are far from ideal. Being either trivial passing mentions (where the industry news coverage is substantially about something else and the subject org is barely mentioned in passing). Or sources which are far from independent (company press releases, promotional webpages from partner companies, interviews with the company CEO, etc). To establish notability of this (250 person? 11 million turnover?) company... Guliolopez (talk) 13:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I have now undertaken a more complete WP:BEFORE. And have identified and added more than a few examples of independent, reliable and verifiable news sources. Including the Irish Times, Irish Independent and New York Times. The latter two dealing with the 2006 appointment of Tom Ridge and sales wins (around the same time) in US airport security use cases. While, at time of nom, the article was almost entirely based on primary sources, press releases and ROTM business news coverage, that is no longer the case. Guliolopez (talk) 13:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Kadono Jūkurō

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Reviewed during New Page Patrol. No evidence of wp:notability under SNG or GNG. Coverage and content is just very limited CV/Resume type material. Regarding potential SNG, his largets thing was being Chairman of the Okura Gumi corporation. North8000 (talk) 18:37, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I don't find coverage in Jstage (an index of Japanese journals) for a railway engineer. There is some coverage about a lighting/electrical engineer [10], none seem to be about this person. Coverage in the article is only one source, which isn't enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 23:07, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Caspian Airlines Flight 6936

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Failure of WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE incident seems to have had a fairly short news cycle, additionally no fatalities and only a total loss of the plane. Lolzer3000 (talk) 14:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Aviation, and Iran. Lolzer3000 (talk) 14:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. A total loss of an aircraft is a significant event and I don't think accident articles need to be deleted just because there were no fatalities. Many aircraft accidents have a "fairly short news cycle" and once a final investigation report has been issued, they usually disappear altogether. Articles about aircraft accidents are useful as they elucidate what the causes were. This one could easily have ended with hundreds dead. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment while i do support some of your causes, just because it could've left hundreds dead doesnt mean it should justify as an article. At the least this should be merged, near tragedy doesnt warrant nor neccesitate an article, the accident is just a simple hull loss wrapped into a near tragedy. Thanks for your time. Lolzer3000 (talk) 15:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Martinevans123 Lolzer3000 (talk) 15:49, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I fully understand the pertinence of not imagining what coulda, woulda, shoulda happened. But the improvement of aviation safety relies on the investigation and analysis of all accidents and incidents. I realise Wikipedia is not an aircraft safety site, but I wanted to explain my perspective here. I'm not sure how this article could be successfully merged without losing a lot of relevant info. Let's see what other editors say. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:22, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This seems to be a serious enough crash, with the aircraft being judged destroyed, and the page and event is well sourced. Absurdum4242 (talk) 17:39, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Significant accident that resulted in a hull loss and injuries, not a simple runway overrun. SignorPignolini (talk) 19:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per WP:EVENTCRIT: Per criterion #4 of the event criteria, "routine kinds of news events including most accidents – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." There isn't much that would give this event enduring significance. There is no continued nor in-depth coverage since news coverage either happened in the aftermath of the accident or after the release of the final report, with most news coverage in persian rehashing what the Civil Aviation Authority of Iran wrote in its final report. None of the sources are secondary, in nature, since none of them contain "analysis, evaluation or interpretation", with the sources being primary. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 10:40, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Moon Kim (poker player)

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:10, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not relevant at the moment. Alon9393 (talk) 20:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The winner of one of the most prestigious poker tournaments on the WPT tour. PsychoticIncall (talk) 12:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Delete does not provide enough independent, verifiable sources that demonstrate his long-term notability in the poker community --Moarnighar (talk) 10:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Is there an appropriate target article this one could be Redirected to? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz I'm not seeing any possible ATD. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:00, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Yellow Line (New York)

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Originally a redirect to BMT Broadway Line, this page got turned into an incomplete disambiguation page (WP:INCDAB) listing two more New Yorker yellow lines that neither mention "yellow" in the article body nor are listed on the Yellow Line dab page (i.e. unlikely search target?). Since INCDAB pages aren't ideal, I see the following solutions for this particular page:

Upmerge all entries to Yellow Line and redirect to Yellow Line {{R from incomplete disambiguation}}
Redirect back to the original BMT Broadway Line target, maybe add hatnotes
Delete to avoid confusion over dab-worthiness
Keep and accept this INCDAB

Whatever the result, I'd do the same for the 6 other NY color line INCDABs (not part of this AFD). – sgeureka ^t•c 14:04, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ETA: Page/Redirect were originally created by now-blocked editor, see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive357#Dozens_upon_dozens_of_questionable_redirects_created_by_now-blocked_user. – sgeureka ^t•c 13:24, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, as none of the entries on the page are actually "yellow lines"; the only commonality between them is that their emblem is colored yellow. (I would also !vote to delete the other incomplete disambiguations, but they weren't nominated here.) – Epicgenius (talk) 13:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Esraa Owis

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Olympics, Sport of athletics, and Egypt. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, many sources exist under her Arabic name "اسراء عويس". Multiple-time major international championship gold medallist so clearly meets WP:NATH. I added the first two to the article. --Habst (talk) 13:22, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Note that it could be difficult to find sources in English language media. She may be notable as an Arab woman athlete winning medals in African championships and qualifying for the Summer Olympics. Nnev66 (talk) 15:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, has sources and the nomination does not indicate that any effort was put behind it. I.e. effort might have been put behind it, but it isn't shown. Geschichte (talk) 16:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. A search in Arabic on Arabic news sites only returned routine, trivial event announcements (e.g. 0–3-sentence lightly-refactored boilerplate text announcing results 1 2 3 4 5 6). Nothing approaching the in-depth secondary independent commentary required to be cited in all sportsperson articles. There is explicitly no carve-out for athletes that allows us to assume IRS SIGCOV exists when no such sources have been identified. The whole point of SPORTCRIT #5 is to ensure that athlete bios are not based on achievements or participation, as those criteria were deprecated by global consensus. JoelleJay (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, thanks for doing the research and finding those sources. I think that if we combine the paragraphs to establish notability (which is allowed per WP:NBASIC), we have a good case to be made here. The consensus you're referring to established by WP:NSPORTS2022 actually supports keeping this article, because it says to keep sports notability criteria as long as it's not participation based (i.e. simply attending a meet). But in Owis' case, she has won multiple major international medals which goes beyond simply participating. I think you are conflating achievements with participation. --Habst (talk) 17:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
NSPORTS2022 established global consensus that, regardless of achievements and regardless of meeting a sport-specific guideline, all athletes must cite a source with IRS SIGCOV. Trivial and routine coverage does not establish notability, and that is the extent of what can be found on this athlete. JoelleJay (talk) 18:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, thanks, the NSPORTS2022 closure actually does not say anything about IRS, and it in fact says, There is a general consensus that the NSPORTS guideline still has broad community support. At the time that statement was made, this is what NSPORTS looked like: Special:Diff/1076787937.

Regardless, if we combine the found articles from multiple independent organizations (not just the Koora sources) we can certainly say the coverage is significant in this case fulfilling WP:SPORTCRIT prong #5. Coverage about a hometown athlete qualifying for the Olympics is not routine -- there are strict qualifying standards and there is no guarantee or schedule of such an event occurring. --Habst (talk) 13:05, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That sentence is in the context of deprecating NSPORT entirely, it is obviously not stating that NSPORT as it was is supported in toto. SPORTCRIT #5 requires a source providing significant coverage, it does not say "a combination of sources adding up to SIGCOV". And I've literally never seen anyone attempt the argument that this clause doesn't require the SIGCOV to be IRS.
Coverage of people in non-routine events can absolutely still be routine. NOTNEWS does not limit this in any way. What has been found so far is not even personalized "hometown coverage", it's churnalized results announcements with no more than three boilerplate sentences apiece originating from the same news source. That is not GNG and is not even an indication of GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 20:35, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, yes the sentence argues for the opposite of deprecating NSPORT -- it says to keep it in place, which it currently is. SPORTCRIT prong 5 could certainly be filled by combining sources as NBASIC allows for, however it's important to note that has no bearing on whether or not WP:NATH is fulfilled (which it clearly is in this case via criterion 2, multiple gold medals at major competitions).

Using a search for "اسراء عويس", I see four different news stories on just the first page of Google results (Paris Olympics - Israa Owais finishes her competitions in the qualifiers, Who is Israa Awis? | Profile, The Pharaohs in Paris.. Israa Owais bids farewell to the Olympic Games competitions, Israa Owais, the track and field athlete, officially qualifies for the Olympics). If you consider all of these "churnalism", then surely the series of at least three in-person interview clips conducted by ONTime Sports ([11] [12] [13]) would count as sufficiently journalistic sources? One of them looks to be a 26-minute news segment all about the subject.

There are more on page 2: Egypt's champion Israa Owais, Israa Owais wins gold in triathlon in athletics at the..., After 3 successful attempts, jumper Israa Awis fails in..., Israa Owais wins gold in long jump at Arab Games, “A golden heroine”... Israa Owais, the owner of historical achievements in, Israa Owais wins gold in triathlon at Arab Games, Israa Awis, Israa Owais after saying goodbye to the Olympics: Enough negative talk, it's making me nervous, Israa Owais ranks 15th in the long jump competition, Sports News: Israa Owais bids farewell to the Games in.... These are all from different sources.

There's also a 30-minute TV interview with her here from Al Ahly TV: Full interview | Israa Owais.. Al-Ahly player and Egypt national team star

This is all just in the first 2 pages of results. I really don't think there's a question that the notability guideline is met, it's just that the sources are mostly in Arabic so we'll need to translate them for inclusion in the article. Honestly, I have yet to find a recent Olympian in athletics who doesn't meet the bar with some digging; the Olympics still have significant cultural purchase and athletics is the marquee sport so typically if someone qualifies, the coverage is there. --Habst (talk) 20:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
SPORTCRIT prong 5 could certainly be filled by combining sources as NBASIC allows for This is absolutely not true. There is no logical reading of at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage that supports your claim that multiple non-SIGCOV sources can constitute "a source providing SIGCOV". The community !voted to override NBASIC in the case of sportspeople in an RfC that was much more recent and global; that takes precedence.
You are refbombing more routine trivial announcementsd. No number of functionally identical three-sentence results updates can amount to SIGCOV. 1: Israa Awis ended her competitions in the high jump qualifiers without qualifying for the final stage. Israa Owais is participating in the Olympics for the first time in her career. Israa Awis achieved a record of 6.20 metres after three successful attempts. This is on a site with no evidence of editorial control, attributed to someone with only two articles total, and identical to pieces on other sites that each also claim a byline. 2: This is a trash webscraper/UGS. 3: Israa Owais, the national team player and strongman, bid farewell to the long jump competitions, within the Olympic Games competitions hosted by Paris. Israa managed to jump to a height of 6.20 meters, coming in fifteenth place in the first group. Essentially the same announcement as 1. 4: This is the same 3-sentence article I linked earlier. 5: This is literally just a picture of her on a government website (not independent, not SIGCOV).
In-person interviews are primary and non-independent. Per policy: The University of Nevada, Reno Libraries define primary sources as providing "an inside view of a particular event". They offer as examples: original documents, such as autobiographies, diaries, e-mail, interviews,
Al Ahly TV is her own sports organization, so that interview obviously fails as primary and non-independent in multiple ways.
If this is the extent of the coverage you're finding on her, then we are severely lacking in anything approaching SPORTCRIT. JoelleJay (talk) 22:19, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, thanks for your response.

Re: paragraph 1, The community !voted to override NBASIC in the case of sportspeople -- Can you please link to the not-vote where this happened? From my read this isn't what happened in NSPORTS2022. Reading WP:NSPORTS2022, NBASIC is only mentioned once and it's not in the context of overriding it. They are separate policies and broad over-arching guidelines like WP:GNG and WP:NBASIC still apply even where more subject-specific guidelines exist.

Re: WP:REFBOMBing -- As an English speaker, I simply can't read all of the sources I am finding in Arabic, so I pasted the plausible ones here so that someone who does speak Arabic can look them over. Also, WP:REFBOMB only refers to putting unnecessary citations in an article. There's nothing wrong with linking many sources in an AfD discussion. In fact, I think they should all be addressed -- I see you left comments on five of the sources, but there are still 13 on just the first two pages of results that need to be looked at.

Re: In-person interviews are primary and non-independent -- This simply isn't supported by Wikipedia policy. I recently had a discussion about an unrelated article with an admin just this week about this, and this is what they said this week at Special:Diff/1245933378:

I think what will help with precedent is getting the interview issue settled. It has come up more and more often and I think it's unsettled. My personal (editor, not admin) POV is that if X media outlet chooses to interview someone, there's something there.

The quote that you're citing and have cited in past discussions is not directly from any Wikipedia policy, but is from a sub-bullet of a footnote of a section of WP:PRIMARY. The word "interview" is in fact never mentioned in the Wikipedia-voice text on that page other than to say that interviews depend on context. So, taking context into consideration, what can we say about the 26-minute ONTime Sports news segment (plus various clips) and the 30-minute Al Ahly TV news segment, both of which seem to be solely about Owis?

Quoting the admin comment on this issue, Is Ojala (or anyone in comparable position) being interviewed as a matter of post match interviews, or is it more substantive? We would expect post-match interviews to be only five or six minutes and only focusing on the game -- instead, these interviews are much longer and were conducted in what seems to be an in-studio news segment setting. I want to emphasize clearly that we need the assistance of an Arabic speaker to say much more, but it seems like a lot exists here for Arabic speakers.

I think the pieces for meeting SPORTCRIT and GNG have been presented. Can you explain why all 15 sources are "severely lacking"? --Habst (talk) 12:57, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You found one closer who holds the idiosyncratic opinion that interviews can somehow count towards GNG based on "the fact that they chose to interview them" rather than anything about the interview content being IRS SIGCOV. But you can't just claim that their close reflects any sort of consensus or even suggests broader disagreement while simultaneously ignoring the far more prevalent examples of closes supporting the view that only the secondary, independent material in an interview may count toward GNG. How could content that someone says about themselves ever be secondary and independent, anyway? And I know you're aware of these examples since I've linked them to you in the past, so why are you only now accepting admin AfD judgments as evidence of consensus? 1: The result was delete. Interviews are primary sources so the delete argument is the policy based one. 2: admin nom statement This article on a tattoo artist is sourced mainly from interviews. Being primary sources, they don't help us establish his notability. 3: admin nom: There are interviews, and a number of performance listings but nothing independent, or significant enough. 4: The result was delete. I am more persuaded by the delete arguments around the necessity of independent sourcing for a BLP then keep arguments that articles that are basically interviews are independent. 5: The "keeps" are largely based on the slew of references provided early on in the discussion; however, nobody arguing to keep has presented evidence here as to how these sources constitute WP:SIGCOV. The argument that interviews are admissible is an oversimplification; interviews may count toward GNG when they have intellectually independent content; that has not been demonstrated here. 6: admin nom: referenced entirely to WP:PRIMARYSOURCES and Q&A interviews that cannot support notability with no evidence of reliable source coverage shown at all.
The WP:OR treatment of interviews is still policy. Just because specific examples of primary sources are listed in the footnotes does not mean they "aren't policy".
It is absolutely acceptable to characterize someone's behavior at AfD as "refbombing". It is breathtakingly entitled for you to dump a bunch of sources that you haven't even read and insist that other editors must prove each of them to be insufficient. JoelleJay (talk) 21:32, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay, thanks for finding these links.

I was actually having an unrelated discussion with the administrator when they opined on interviews unprompted -- I wasn't looking to find a point of view one way or the other and I'm trying to enter discussions with an open mind. It seems intuitive to me that if a reputable news organization conducts a long-form interview, that speaks to the notability of the subject, and I haven't been able to find any Wikipedia policy contradicting that practice here.

I am still curious about the justification for discounting interviews. The only mention you cited earlier, in WP:PRIMARY, doesn't mention interviews in the policy text, and the only mention in a footnote says, other opinion pieces, including (depending on context) reviews and interviews as examples of what could be a primary source. Surely a lengthy news segment interview on a subject would fall under "depending on context" and could be used to establish notability? Also, the way the footnote is written, it makes it seem like only opinion-piece interviews are discussed and not news interviews.

Looking at the links, 1) doesn't contain any news interviews, 2) only comments that the particular interviews used were primary and does not make a sweeping claim about all interviews, 3) doesn't seem to contain any news interviews but instead promotional interviews for his books (?), 4) makes no comment about interviews in general, 5) actually says interviews may count toward GNG when they have intellectually independent content which I think should be met in this case, and 6) only speaks to specific "Q&A interviews" but not news interviews nor interviews in general.

Re: Refbombing, I don't think it's productive to say that other editors are providing too many citations in AfD discussions where the point of the discussion is to evaluate sources. I plan on making a best effort at translation, but the reason why I linked and will continue to link sources in AfDs without being excessive is to see what the community thinks about them even if neither of us can read Arabic natively. I greatly respect your encyclopedic contributions and hope you can extend the same respect to me and can refrain from making personal comments.

Acknowledging that "interviews may count towards GNG" if conditions are met, can we discuss the substance of the news interviews found so far, or if not them, then the other undiscussed sources linked? --Habst (talk) 14:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No comment on this specific case, but in response to your claim: [That notability can be established through NBASIC for sportspeople] is absolutely not true ... The community !voted to override NBASIC in the case of sportspeople in an RfC that was much more recent and global; that takes precedence. – No, the community absolutely did not !vote to override the notability guideline for people, as said by the user who established SPORTCRIT in the first place: this provision was intended to aid us in expunging the plethora of sub-stubs sourced to databases and lacking any significant coverage that would allow us to write a well-rounded biography ... SPORTBASIC #5 was never intended, nor should it be misused, to trump or overrule the more general, overarching rule. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:41, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 13:09, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The sources added by Habst appear to be good enough (via reading a rough translation) for meeting the WP:GNG and WP:BASIC. Let'srun (talk) 13:09, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Let'srun, the first link has three brief sentences announcing her event results. That is routine news coverage on its own, but it's also clearly lacking in any secondary analysis as the specifics are just substituted into the boilerplate announcements put out by Kooora and Kas News for every athlete at every competition. You can look at the links I provided to see the identical formatting, and also compare to the contemporaneous announcements put out for others in her cohort. They are pure fluff.
Kooora:
Israa Owais, the Egyptian track and field player, won the gold medal in the long jump competition at the Arab Games held in Algeria. Israa Owais succeeded in winning the gold medal after achieving a distance of 6.54 meters in the competitions held on Tuesday evening in the Algerian city of Oran.
Kooora:
Mostafa Amr, a player in the Egyptian track and field team, won the gold medal in the shot put competition at the Arab Games held in Algeria from July 5 to 15. Amr succeeded in winning the gold medal at the Arab Games after achieving a distance of 20.52 meters in the competitions held today in the city of Oran, Algeria.
Run-of-the-mill sports announcements are not enough to demonstrate notability, and athletes are required to have a source of IRS SIGCOV cited in the article. A 3-sentence blurb that contains nothing beyond the results of an event is certainly not enough to meet SPORTSCRIT. The second piece is by the same news agency as the first (the Kooora piece is functionally identical to a Kas News piece) and so these definitely don't even constitute "multiple" sources of coverage.
Kas News:
Israa Owais, a player in the Egyptian track and field team, won the gold medal in the long jump competition at the Arab Games currently being held in Algeria. Israa Awis succeeded in winning the gold medal in the Arab Games after achieving a distance of 6.54 meters in the competitions held today in the city of Oran, Algeria.
Per policy: For example, routine news coverage of announcements, events, sports, or celebrities, while sometimes useful, is not by itself a sufficient basis for inclusion of the subject of that coverage
Per WP:N: It is common for multiple newspapers or journals to publish the same story, sometimes with minor alterations or different headlines, but one story does not constitute multiple works. Several journals simultaneously publishing different articles does not always constitute multiple works, especially when the authors are relying on the same sources, and merely restating the same information. Similarly, a series of publications by the same author or in the same periodical is normally counted as one source. JoelleJay (talk) 19:44, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have none of the keep !voters actually read any of the proposed sources...? JoelleJay (talk) 21:45, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 18:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shekar Natarajan

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Promo article. Fails WP:BIO. Refs are mostly interviews and profiles. No indication of being notable. scope_creep^Talk 07:29, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and India. Shellwood (talk) 09:04, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Engineering and Telangana. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:42, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is so many citations on his work in this article and he is well known in the world of Supply Chain. 75.149.50.222 (talk) 02:55, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=M1dROmoAAAAJ&hl=en 75.149.50.222 (talk) 02:55, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to address the concerns regarding the notability and reliability of the references in this article.

Notability and Achievements:

Shekar Natarajan is a recognized expert in the field of supply chain management. His contributions to the industry have been significant, as evidenced by his receipt of the Medallion Award from the Institute of Industrial and Systems Engineers (IISE) in 2010, which is awarded for notable contributions to the field. It was awarded to only 10 people over the last decade. This award recognizes individuals that have made a notable impact on the industrial engineering profession. The full list of awardees, including Mr. Natarajan, can be viewed here - https://www.iise.org/awards.aspx?id=10802.

Reliable Sources:

In addition to the IISE recognition, Mr. Natarajan has been acknowledged by various reputable industry sources. For example, Material Handling and Logistics News has recognized him as an expert in supply chain logistics. More details about his work and expertise can be found in their coverage here - https://www.mhlnews.com/shekar-natarajan-expert.

Given these points, I believe Mr. Natarajan's notability is well-established within his field, supported by reliable third-party sources.

Thank you for considering these points. 75.149.50.222 (talk) 04:23, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shekar Natarajan has received several prestigious awards and recognitions throughout his career, acknowledging his significant contributions to the supply chain and logistics industry.* Medallion Award (2010): Awarded by the Institute of Industrial and Systems Engineers (IISE), recognizing his contributions to the field of industrial engineering and systems.

DC Velocity Rainmaker (Year): Named as one of the "Rainmakers" by DC Velocity magazine, which highlights professionals who have made substantial impacts in the logistics and supply chain field. Source.
Consumer Goods Visionary (2010): Recognized as a visionary by Consumer Goods magazine for his forward-thinking strategies in the consumer goods industry. Source.Given the multiple awards and recognitions that Shekar Natarajan has received, it is clear that he has made a noteworthy impact in his industry. Deleting this article would mean removing valuable information about a recognized leader in supply chain management, whose work continues to influence the field. This article serves as a credible and informative resource for those interested in learning about influential figures in the industry.

2601:644:9385:FB0:542B:A7A2:4997:3559 (talk) 05:03, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This discussion needs to see more participation. Looking at the comments thus far, it seems like this subject might have won some prestigious industry awards. Notable awards go beyond the Oscars and Nobels, by the way. A source review would also be helpful here as this is a heavily referenced article.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment These are corporate awards and are non-notable here. scope_creep^Talk 10:50, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep Highly notable as a high-level executive who has worked at or been contracted by major Fortune 500 companies such as Coca-Cola Consolidated, PepsiCo, Anheuser-Busch, and also Disney, Walmart, Target, American Eagle Outfitters.

Parts of the article look promotional but can be cleaned up, but that does not mean that the subject is not notable. Clearly meets WP:BIO, with copious citations all over the web (WP:SIGCOV). Also search for Chandrashekar Natarajan. Plenty of Google Scholar contributions.

Some awards and sentences about him being a "thought leader" can be trimmed since I believe they're too promotional, but the sources clearly demonstrate that this is a notable Fortune 500 company executive. Natarajan is covered by the Wall Street Journal, Reuters, New York Times, Harvard Business Review, and many other top-tier sources that can also be included.

Copyediting needed? Yes. But notability fail? Definitely not. I'd recommend keeping and then cleaning up. Nyangaman4 (talk) 01:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. On the Google Scholar citation list , only one paper is above 100 cites which means that record of achievement is invalid. Too low a h-index/citation count to count towards WP:NACADEMIC. Being contracted or having worked at place isn't inherently notable. Only coverage denotes notability and its not here. We will look at the references today. scope_creep^Talk 08:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I could not find any WP:SIGCOV piece on this person in a quality independent national RS, a zero in an international one. His awards are not notable and "working for" major US corporations in a local country is also not notable. Article is very WP:PROMO and written like his resume. Getting into WP:G11 territory but regardless, no evidence of notability on any basis. Aszx5000 (talk) 18:49, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 13:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: This is the best article, but it's penned by this person [14], unfortunately. There just isn't enough about this fellow to show notability here. Brief mentions in the few sources used in the article that are RS aren't enough. Oaktree b (talk) 22:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I have just removed promotional resume-like content and puffery. This article has been up since 2010, but it appears that different people have been inserting promotional content over time. But that does not mean this person is not notable. If cleaned up, it will meet Wikipedia criteria and can be kept. Nyangaman4 (talk) 15:26, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I could not find a single piece of WP:SIGCOV on this person in any quality Indian RS. This was probably a WP:UPE case that should never have been a BLP, but somehow it survived. 15:35, 18 September 2024 (UTC) Aszx5000 (talk) 15:35, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'm normally opposed to having a third relisting, but we may need time to consider changes that removed some self-promo content.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 18:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I did consider those changes, and while there is still a lot of non-notable awards and positions listed, the main issue remains, which is that there are no WP:SIGCOV pieces - never mind WP:3REFS - on this person in any quality independent WP:RS. They are just not a notable person. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joshua Beckley

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and New Jersey. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 2015 World Series of Poker: Subject only has notable coverage due to WP:1E, and without any additional RS covering him this should be redirected as a WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 21:11, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Other second-place finishers in the Main Event has qualified as notable (see f.e Steven Jones) and Beckley is atleast as notable as them. PsychoticIncall (talk) 08:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 18:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coach Trip series 8

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Has been tagged as unsourced for over a decade. No objection if anyone merges it to Coach trip but it does not seem notable enough to deserve its own article Chidgk1 (talk) 12:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and Turkey. Chidgk1 (talk) 12:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: WP:SPLITLIST applies. Every of the 18 series has a page. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 13:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete Wikipedia:NOTDATABASE An endless list of nothing. Pallikari ap' ta Sfakia 17:36, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep for technical merrits. Either all CT series should be deleted, or (preferably) all should be merged into a kind of episode list. There's no point in singling this page out. – sgeureka ^t•c 07:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 18:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Refugee lens investing

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Reviewed during NPP. No evidence of notability under GNG or SNG. A vague term invented by a company for something that it does. The references have a bit on the company (most of them just passing along self-published material) and the leader, but there is no coverage much less the required in-depth coverage on what this actual is. As result the article is just vague arm waving and related platitude about refugees without even cover covering the putative topic North8000 (talk) 18:24, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Whats your plan to get it delete. There is quite heavy block of academic references on it. I reviwed it and thought the chances of deletion were slim. scope_creep^Talk 20:31, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Khoan Soben

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No WP:SIGCOV for this Cambodian footballer; result is the subject fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:20, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Kong Lyhour

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No WP:SIGCOV to be found for this footballer; fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:15, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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ALAIZ collective

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Article about a music production collective, not properly sourced as having any strong claim to passing WP:NMUSIC. The main notability claim being attempted here is that they and artists they have worked with exist, which is not automatically notable enough to guarantee a Wikipedia article in and of itself -- but the article is referenced almost entirely to directly affiliated primary sources and glancing namechecks of ALAIZ in coverage of the individual artists, with little to no evidence of any WP:GNG-worthy coverage about ALAIZ in its own right.
The article was, further, heavily weighed down with entirely inappropriate offsite links to the self-published webpages of individual artists named in the body text, as well as quoteboxes highlighting cherry-picked promotional quotes for PR purposes, all of which I've already had to remove as WP:ELNO violations.
Nothing stated here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt them from having to have a stronger notability claim than just existing, and better sourcing for it than has been provided. Bearcat (talk) 17:55, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Canada. Bearcat (talk) 17:55, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flirtini (app)

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This appears to be an advertisement for the app and not an encyclopedic entry. Ktkvtsh (talk) 17:36, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Elisa Hategan

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This is a self-promoting vanity page for a marginal figure, who is obviously continually editing it. There is a very long history of edit wars on the article, including their attempts to prevent coverage of their legal issues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TrashPandaMan (talk • contribs)

This nomination for deletion is part of ongoing vandalism of this page, which resulted it being locked down for a year. The nomination comes from one particular editor whose history shows he has targeted this particular page to delete large swaths of sourced content. His edit history also shows that he has targeted this page multiple times, contributing nothing but deleting large sections due to personal opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Belladonna2024 (talk • contribs)

The account that has been repeatedly undoing revisions to this page is now deleting the nomination for deletion without adequate discussion among editors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TrashPandaMan (talk • contribs) 16:59, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The account that keeps sabotaging this page (TrashPandaMan) and deleting huge segments without adding anything to it, is now aggressively vandalizing the page and repeatedly nominating it for deletion. His history of edits shows he has targeted two specific pages, this one and another page, and repeatedly vandalizing and nominating them for deletion, citing only his personal opinion that it should be deleted. Belladonna2024 (talk) 17:03, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no sabotage. This is a highly problematic article with irrelevant information of questionable notability. The edit history shows a clear record of other users attempting to clean up the writing and eliminate unnecessary and self-promoting information, followed by constant attempts to revert the explained edits. Th subject of this article is clearly watching it very closely, and has been for some time, as can be seen in the controversy over the inclusion of their failed lawsuit. Individuals should not be curating their own Wikipedia pages. TrashPandaMan (talk) 19:36, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the edit history, it appears clear that TrashPandaMan's account was created with the specific purpose of deleting sourced content of two specific pages, and nominating them for deletion. This user has repeatedly deleted large amounts of information without providing any sources to substantiate his opinion that this is a vanity page. It also appears evident, by the hostility of his comments, combined with deletion of large segments and frequent vandalism of the page, that user TrashPandaMan might be associated with the other parties involved in Hategan's lawsuit.

I am not responsible for creating this page, but I do not believe it is a "vanity" page considering that Hategan has made significant contributions to Canada's anti-racist history and has been directly credited to contributing to the shutting down of the Heritage Front. However, I agree that in light of recurring sabotage and vandalism by people seemingly intent on removing sourced content, that perhaps it would be for the best if the page was deleted altogether. Belladonna2024 (talk) 21:21, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Women, Journalism, Romania, and Canada. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Context. This discussion and this discussion are relevant here, and the page's history also tells a good story. These users have been fighting for over a week, and since they can't agree on anything, they keep edit warring and trying to bar one another from editing the page, as seen at Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection/Archive/2024/09#Elisa_Hategan and this deletion discussion. Badbluebus (talk) 21:58, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Socialist Party (India)

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I strongly doubt "Indian political parties named Socialist Party" is a notable list topic per WP:NLIST. I propose turning this article into a disambiguation page. Sourced claims that are present here should be moved to applicable articles. Janhrach (talk) 16:46, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations, Politics, Disambiguations, Lists, and India. Janhrach (talk) 16:46, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - but assign to the original Socialist Party. The first SP (the 1951 one) was a major national party, was the largest opposition party in national parliament at some point. The article should be delimited to that party. --Soman (talk) 21:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Akhmed Yakoob

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Fails WP:GNG or WP:NPOL, candidacy doesn't count towards NPOL, by the way, they have to be elected to the office. For GNG, the sources used are routine coverages of the racism incident, etc. No WP:SIGCOV can be identified. One of the BBC source even does not have a byline, while you might thing it's almighty BBC, but sorry, we can not rely on a news piece that lacks a byline, whether from an international news org or a local one. A WP:BEFORE was done and the nature of the sources found there does not help, they either routine coverages or run of the mill. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:33, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Law, and England. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:15, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 2024 West Midlands mayoral election as page fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO. This page was originally a redirect, and should return to being a redirect. The name is a notable redirect to the events discussed in the mayoral election article, but not as a standalone page. If he'd been elected to office then it would be a different story. This is Paul (talk) 19:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Venezuela Solidarity Campaign

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WP:SIRS requires that sources establishing notability need to be "completely independent of the article subject" and reliable. I could only find pro-Venezuelan-government sources about this organization. I find it dubious whether these sources establish notability, therefore I am nominating this for deletion. Janhrach (talk) 16:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations, Politics, United Kingdom, and Venezuela. Janhrach (talk) 16:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There does seem to be some decent coverage in books. I'll have a more thorough look later. I'm unsure how and on what basis you can characterise particular media sources as "pro-Venezuelan-government". What media sources which are "anti-Venezuelan-government" and are they acceptable to establish notability? AusLondonder (talk) 16:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As for the Google Books results, it seems most are either citations of VSC, or trivial mentions. That was my first glance on the search results, but I do not deny there may be books that provide substantial coverage.

By "pro-Venezuelan-government", I meant, for example, Venezuelanalysis and the Liberation News of Party for Socialism and Liberation or other party-affiliated sites. I do not mean that all "pro-Venezuelan-government" do not establish notability – I expressed myself poorly. I doubt that specific sources establish notability because of their partisanness, with SIRS mandating absolute independence from the subject. I am no expert on notability, I could be mistaken. Janhrach (talk) 17:16, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alejandro Otero Lárez

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BLP that fails WP:SIGCOV. No indication of significance. Fails WP:BIO. scope_creep^Talk 15:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Mister Venezuela 1999 -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 20:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IMOCA 60 Initiative Coeur 4

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There is no WP:SIGCOV of this sailboat and thus it fails WP:GNG. PROD was contested. Would support redirection to IMOCA 60. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:56, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sports and Transportation. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:56, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, its common practice that every IMOCA 60 has its own page, like the french wikipedia (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiatives-C%C5%93ur_4). The importance is given by the Vendée Globe starting only in about two months. Give me some time to bring the article up to speed. V.Glas (talk) 19:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@V.Glas ~~You created the page~~ This page was created in November 2023 and it has had no independent, reliable, secondary sources since then. That seems like plenty of time to find them and "bring the article up to speed." (I don't believe they exist, since I searched for them WP:BEFORE nominating.) As for your argument that "it's common practice," that's an WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument that does not rely on any actual guidelines, and we follow English Wikipedia guidelines here. What is your policy-based reason for keeping this article? One alternative, if you believe sources will be available after the Vendee Globe, is to draftify this article, which is the appropriate place for it if you're still working on finding sources. Let me know what you think. Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, I did not create the page. That was @Yachty4000. If you are looking for sources or notability, take the French article as reference. I already translated and added some parts. V.Glas (talk) 20:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for my misstatement and have struck it above. Regardless there is now a week for sufficient sources to be identified. As I said, I didn’t find any that fit the bill (and I looked in French as well). But if you find some and they do meet the standards of WP:SIGCOV in WP:SIRS I will withdraw the nomination. Dclemens1971 (talk) 21:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IMOCA 60 Maitre Coq 5

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There is no WP:SIGCOV of this sailboat and thus it fails WP:GNG. PROD was contested. Would support redirection to IMOCA 60. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:55, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sports and Transportation.Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:57, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For arguments against the deletion, see similar discussion here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IMOCA 60 Initiative Coeur 4 V.Glas (talk) 20:15, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The editor who contested the PROD has added several sources to this article; however, all but one are affiliated sources or primary sources and thus we still don't have a WP:GNG pass. Dclemens1971 (talk) 22:31, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FunTrivia

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Fun Trivia

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I like this site, and have used it for a while, but it unfortunately fails WP:GNG, all sources are self-published. The archived Yahoo source is merely a list of similar trivia websites. Sekundenlang (talk) 12:09, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 September 12. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 12:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete lack of significant coverages and one source is not enough. Xegma(talk) 13:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2014 AC Nagano Parceiro season

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Fails WP:GNG. Severe lack of sources and content. The only reference is from a primary source. EpicAdventurer (talk) 13:54, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. Creator is globally locked. The page is not great, but is a part of a series of 2014 J3-League club seasons. Geschichte (talk) 11:11, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, it’s part of an entire series of articles for the different Japanese football leagues which not only tracks the competitions year by year, but the teams too. Cutting out a single article in the series seems like it would break up the series for no good reason, when the information itself is super clearly presented, and threaded, in a way I haven’t been able to find anywhere else online.

In my opinion deleting it would take away something useful. For that reason, I have the page a solid edit tonight. I’ve still got to go ahead and add match report links to each individual game, but I think I at least covered the basics.

This is such a useful resource that I’m going to make it a mission to pick through all the rest of the articles in the series one by one, and expand / source each of those as well. So it would be really nice if you didn’t delete this one article as I’m doing that…

Vote to keep. Absurdum4242 (talk) 14:32, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep Sorry, new to this, didn’t realise I should have made a * and bolded my keep recommendation until I reread the guide again just now. Mea Culpa.

Absurdum4242 (talk) 14:39, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or Draftify - Significant sources have been added and an editor has expressed interest in expanding further. At minimum, move to draft to give editor time to continue to improve. Chris1834 Talk 20:53, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 14:46, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lakana

AfDs for this article:

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Lakana presents this term as representing a specific type of watercraft (an outrigger canoe) with a specific type of rig (the "downwind" mastless rig that is supported between two sprits). This specific type of craft does exist – it is shown in the photo illustrating the article. However, in Malagasy, as far as I can determine, the word "Lakana" is any type of canoe, with or without outriggers, with or without a sailing rig, and certainly not confined to just one type of sailing rig. This is clear from the reference in the article
Hornell, James (1920). "67. The Common Origin of the Outrigger Canoes of Madagascar and East Africa". Man. 20: 134–139. doi:10.2307/2839454. Retrieved 5 September 2024.
which has a translation provided by a colonial administrator confirming that "lakana" is not a specific type of canoe, but a canoe (or boat) in general. Hornell is still seen as a useful authority on the ethnography of sailing craft in the areas in which he worked. If the word applied to a particular hull and rig combination, he would have picked up on this.

I have asked for help on the Wikiproject Madagascar[15] with no result. Therefore, I think we have to conclude that these concerns about the article are correct. If "lakana" is a much broader term than the article suggests, if we do not the name of the type of craft that the article describes (I can find no source that makes this clear), then the only option is to delete the article as unsupported by sources.

In passing, it is worth saying that I have come to the conclusion that though the subject of traditional sailing craft in Madagascar would make a very interesting (to me) article on Wikipedia, there simply are not sufficient sources to do the subject justice. This is after some considerable searching. (It would be great to be proved wrong in this.) ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 13:20, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment this is the second AfD nomination for Lakana, but the first related to a company not a type of boat. TSventon (talk) 14:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment. In terms of:

Scope. To my read, the article doesn't state (at least not directly as interpreted by the nominator) that the article "presents this term as representing a specific type of watercraft (an outrigger canoe [of Madagascar]) with a specific type of rig". Rather it states (as would appear to be supported by Hornell (1920; p.138) and Richardson (1887; p.345)) that the Lakana is (yes) a specific type of watercraft. Being an outrigger canoe. That is "dug out". Rather than "built". IE: A "specific type of watercraft (a dugout outrigger canoe [of Madagascar])". Which is supported by Richardson in particular. Yes, the article mentions different types of rigging. But I don't read it as stating that the rigging type is part of the definition/classification. If that is unclear, I would suggest that we clarify or change the text. Rather than delete the article.
Sources. To my mind, there are sufficient sources (including the two above) to support some text about the subject. Being a type of dugout outrigger traditionally used in Madagascar. Even if just as a sub-set / sub-section of the Pirogue article. Which appears to cover the "generic" class of small dugout canoe. Globally. With a redirect left behind. To a subsection on the Madagascan type.
Suggested action. If the issues with the title are scope (including clarity of the text) or sources (reflecting them), I'm not sure that outright deletion is the right way to go. Deletion isn't cleanup. At the very least, a merge/redirect seems like the way to go. To Pirogue. Leaving out any "questionable" or potentially confusing text.

My 2x cents at any rate. Guliolopez (talk) 19:24, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment.

Translation: The key issue is whether Lakana is a term for "outrigger canoes which are based on a dugout hull" or if it applies to "any dugout canoe". The two sources discussed above seem to give the definition of an unqualified "dugout canoe". At present the article is solely about the outrigger version. To assist in decision-making on the meaning, see this video[16] with the caption "Miandry ny lakana miampita" which google translates as "The boat is waiting to cross". We can see there is no outrigger. (Whilst OR is not allowed for article content, there is no prohibition on using it to help understand a subject.) The boat in the video is very different from the seagoing outrigger canoes.
What makes this more difficult is the knowledge that the Vezo make use of outrigger canoes with a distinctive common spritsail rig (as defined by Edwin Doran [17], pg 40, fig 21, drawing B) that is not described, in Madagascar, by Hornell or anyone else. (Hornell describes this rig in the neighbouring Comoro Islands [18]) A Vezo boat is the one illustrating the Pirogue article – but there is no RS that identifies the rig type. And, of course, Commons has no obligation for its descriptions of pictures to be supported by an RS. This might contribute to the impetus for deletion in this editor's mind (as proposer), as there is a very common class of Madagascan dugout outrigger canoe that is totally undescribed in RSs, so making the subject incomplete. (See youtube[19] for these Vezo craft under sail, which is something that most believe Hornell never saw). All I have to back this thought up is some private correspondence with a researcher on Austronesian rigs – so essentially WP:OR.
If I understand User:Guliolopez correctly, their suggestion would mean a complete rewrite of the article to fit the sources and then merge it into Pirogue. That would fit with the intent behind the proposal: that we do not really have enough sourced material for an article on the Lakana on its own. Have I got this correct? ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 21:07, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reply. Hi ThoughtIdRetired. RE: "suggestion would mean a complete rewrite of the article to fit the sources and then merge it into Pirogue". Effectively, yes, I think that's probably the most appropriate outcome. Retain the title. As a redirect. And summarise and merge the content/text (about the Lakana being a form of Pirogue/dugout traditionally associated with Madagascar) into the Pirogue article. Guliolopez (talk) 14:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. (Note: prior to the AfD nomination, I had suggested to the nominator that they put this up for deletion.) My take on the current sources etc. is that none of them indicate that the lakana is anything other than the Malagasy for a canoe. My interpretation of each source etc. below:
- "The lateen rig allows a lakana to sail closer to the wind, so giving some windward performance.[1]”
  - My interpretation: Doesn't indicate that the lakana is something different.
- "The boat is often referred to by the general French term "pirogue", which can include boats with no outriggers.[2]"
  - My interpretation: “general French term” suggests there's nothing special about the lakana.
- “The technology was adapted in neighboring East Africa, like the Tanzanian ngalawa and the Fulani laana.[3][4]”
  - My interpretation: Can't access these sources, but the Wikipedia wording suggests that there are similar craft elsewhere - i.e. there's nothing peculiar to Madagascar about these.
- “some locals prefer the Hazomalany wood (Hazomalania voyronii of the family of Hernandiaceae).[5]”
  - My interpretation: Doesn't indicate that the lakana is something different.
- Hornell, James (September 1920). “The Common Origin of the Outrigger Canoes of Madagascar and East Africa”
  - My interpretation: Only indicates that “lakana” is simply the Malagasy for “canoe”.
- Richardson, J (December 1887). “The Affinities Of Malagasy With The Melanesian Languages”
  - My interpretation: Only indicates that “lakana” is simply the Malagasy for “canoe”.
- “An Austronesian square-sail is more common (e.g. in Ambaro Bay).[a]”
  - My interpretation: Doesn't indicate that the lakana is something different.

--A bit iffy (talk) 17:48, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Does not qualify for soft-deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 14:44, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, as there is very little material in this article that can be merged into Pirogue. On going through this in detail, there are perhaps three sentences to add to Pirogue from this article. (The tree species used for the sailing versions, the "lakana" is the Malagasy for pirogue, and that this word applies to dug out canoes, with or without outriggers and with various rigs. We cannot say more as the sailing rigs are incompletely described by sources.) Lakana would just remain as a redirect. ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 21:16, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Saquib Rizvi Memorial Marathon

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Can't find anything to suggest notability; alsost all hits are facebook or YouTube &c. TheLongTone (talk) 14:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Varrio 204th Street

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Lack of notability. TheLongTone (talk) 14:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to List of criminal gangs in Los Angeles: While I did find a singular Washington Post article about them, I can't find anything else that prevents a failure of WP:GNG. A redirect would work. Sir MemeGod  20:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zulfikar Hirji

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Highly advertorialized WP:BLP of an academic, not properly sourced as passing WP:NPROF. As always, academics are not automatically entitled to have Wikipedia articles just because they exist, and have to show proper sourcing establishing that they surpass certain specific notability criteria -- but this is referenced entirely to primary sourcing that is not support for notability at all, such as his own self-published website and his own staff profile on the self-published website of his own employer and his own writing metasourcing its own existence, rather than any third-party validation of his significance in sources independent of himself.
There are further WP:COPYRIGHT issues here, as every book in his "selected works" isn't just "title + ISBN", but contains an extended advertorial spiel copied and pasted verbatim from its promotional page on the website of its own publisher.
Nothing here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt him from having to be written and sourced properly. Bearcat (talk) 14:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete non-notable academic as per WP:NPROF, I did some searching for more about this person and wasn't able to find anything to establish notability. Dr vulpes (Talk) 23:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Eaves

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Lack of independant notabilityWP:notinherited. Redirect to wife? TheLongTone (talk) 14:20, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and North Carolina. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:24, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'm going to take this opportunity to bring up WP:NPPHOUR, as this was nominated for deletion 22 minutes after being converted from a redirect to an article. Also noting that the redirect's creator was notified, not the person who converted it to an article (pinging Willthacheerleader18). Hey man im josh (talk) 14:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hey man im josh Thanks for the heads up! -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 15:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as subject is the first "First Gentleman" of North Carolina. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 15:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He also launched the Students@Work educational program for middle school students in North Carolina and Carolina Helping Heroes for military spouses. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 16:16, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Lori Lewis

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Based largely on WP:SELFPUBLISHED sources such as blogs and social media. Fails WP:SIGCOV. A suitable WP:ATD would be a redirect to Therion (band). 4meter4 (talk) 14:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Olivia Raney

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Fails WP:BIO. Her husband established a library in her honor after she died suddenly. That's it. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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If not kept, Merge to Wake County, North Carolina#Libraries (or to an article about the town where the library is located?), because Wikipedia ought to answer the question "Who was this Olivia Raney that the library is named after?" PamD 07:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - There could possibly be an article on the library, with a paragraph on who it was named after, but Ms. Raney simply does not have enough accomplishments or reliable historical coverage to justify her own article. Meanwhile, the merge suggestion above is valid but I think it would be awkward because none of the other libraries in the county have any precise background info at the target article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - there is plenty of newspaper coverage of the "Olivia Raney Library". I added a reference from 1899 with extensive coverage in the The News & Observer of its opening. Perhaps the page should be renamed Olivia Raney Library.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nnev66 (talk • contribs) 14:22, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I tend to agree that this article fails WP:BIO but I do think the library itself is notable. In addition, most of the content in this article concerns the library rather than the woman. Perhaps the article could be draftified and rewritten as the Olivia Raney Library. Jtwhetten (talk) 19:55, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 14:04, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to Olivia Raney Library & edit to suit.TheLongTone (talk) 14:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kristína Košíková

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I cannot find any evidence of notability for this Slovak women's footballer. The only secondary source I found is an interview, but nothing else to pass WP:GNG. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 13:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Sebastian Cluer

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There doesn't appear to be significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources. None of the links in the article help establish notability. toweli (talk) 09:04, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Authors, and Canada. toweli (talk) 09:04, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a subjective opinion coming from a lack of awareness of Canada's television entertainment scene. Sebastian Cluer is one of the most well known and in-demand directors in his country, having directed, produced and developed many notable shows that have had massive success both in his home country and abroad. Lots of them are on airlines, including Still Standing, Bollywed, Property Brothers...and the list goes on. These along with receiving many nominations and wins, particularly with The Canadian Screen Awards, which are the country's equivalent to the Oscars and Golden Globes combined.

Sebastian was also instrumental in the success of the hugely popular and successful show Kenny vs. Spenny and has been appearing in commentaries alongside Kenny Hotz as of late.

IMDB Sebastian Cluer for further validation Cliuthar (talk) 15:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine, but we need sources about him. Simply being named in a list of nominees isn't enough for notability here. Oaktree b (talk) 23:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Article does need improvement, but there are far too many Gemini Award and Canadian Screen Award nominations and victories listed here to deem him "non-notable" at all. That's top-level national awards, equivalent to Emmys and Oscars, which is a notability lock even if the sourcing still needs improvement, and the sourcing for that kind of stuff most certainly can be improved. Bearcat (talk) 17:27, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But there isn't any sourcing to be found. I agree he's notable, but having a permastub for lack of sourcing isn't what we look for. Oaktree b (talk) 23:02, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Is notable" and "delete" cannot coexist. Gemini Awards and Canadian Screen Awards are an inherent notability lock, meaning that every person with those awards on their mantle must be allowed to have a Wikipedia article. I'll grant that not everybody named in our Genie, Gemini and CSA articles already has an article yet, but everybody named in any of them must be allowed to have an article as soon as somebody gets around to it, and there can be no exceptions to that: it's a top-level national award that nails inherent notability to the wall right on its face per WP:ANYBIO's "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times", which means it's inherently notable enough that it locks notability down even if the sourcing is inadequate. The only legitimate grounds for deleting a Gemini/Genie/CSA winner would be if sourceability were completely nonexistent (e.g. a person whose article falsely claimed a nomination or win that they didn't really have). Bearcat (talk) 17:08, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Nominations suggest notability, but there just isn't enough coverage about him. I had to dig to even bring this up [20]. An interview that doesn't quite help notability. Delete for lack of sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 23:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 13:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BEC Recordings

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Article has been deleted and restored unilaterally by other editors due to debate over notability. While I believe the label is notable, I have not been able to find sourcing to support this assertion. Brining here to gain consensus on deletion or retention. glman (talk) 13:08, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Tooth & Nail Records, which I did as an WP:ATD. It wasn't deleted. Record labels are a company. Not a band and falls under WP:NCORP, not WP:NMUSIC and this label is unable to meet NCORP level of notability. Graywalls (talk) 14:09, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect. The label has not been the subject of in-depth secondary sources. This webpage by christianmusicarchive.com is an exact quote of Wikipedia, so it fails WP:CIRCULAR. This page in the "person" section of CBN lacks a named author, so its reliability is questionable. It seems like BEC wrote it and CBN is hosting it. The notional topic fails WP:GNG. Binksternet (talk) 14:56, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Kira Hagi

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Her acting roles are small or in movies that aren't notable themselves and she hasn't established herself as a notable artist. While there is considerable media attention, much of it feels sensationalistic. I might be overlooking something since I don’t speak Romanian but her notability shouldn't simply stem from her father being a famous footballer (WP:INVALIDBIO) Ynsfial (talk) 12:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep. She seems to have notability on her own as an actress, though is hard for me to evaluate the notability of the films she acted in.Anonimu (talk) 14:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Gheorghe_Hagi#Personal_life -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 21:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Badakhshan Dassault Falcon 10 crash

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Per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:EVENTCRIT. Per WP:GNG, "sources should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability". From what I've been able to find, only primary sources exist on the event with no secondary sources existing on the event. The event does not have in-depth nor sustained continued coverage with coverage only briefly occurring in the aftermath of the crash. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 11:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete above reason Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 11:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into and create Dassault Falcon 10 Accidents and incidents category. Lolzer3k 17:27, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of Fawlty Towers cast members

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An WP:INDISCRIMINATE list of every actor who has ever been in an episode of a TV series is not encyclopedic content. --wooden superman 11:12, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Fawlty Towers. Pretty much all this content is already available in the episodes list. Ajf773 (talk) 11:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to Fawlty Towers Since the entire list depends on the index of one source, The Complete Fawlty Towers, this meets the spirit and definition of a copyright violation. Nate • (chatter) 19:55, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retroactive overtime

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Fails WP:GNG and is only sourced to WP:PRIMARY sources, without any secondary sourcing whatsoever. What's left is original research. It's impossible to even WP:ATD because there is nothing to merge at all, making it surprising how it lasted for so long. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:33, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Karmaanya

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Not yet notable per WP:NFILM, references cited confirm that principal photography hasn't begun yet, so the film may never see the light of day. All I could find online in English and Hindi (कर्माण्य) was WP:NEWSORGINDIA announcements about a teaser (currently CGI and a single actor) and a poster. Prodded once, moved to draft, declined there for notability. Wikishovel (talk) 10:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Tinu Verma#Director: and add so far existing details or ReDraft. No need to delete. Note: I DpD the page and Drafted it. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 15:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:NFILM. The film is still in pre-production stage and there are just announcements. Case of WP:TOOSOON. RangersRus (talk) 16:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - No significant coverage that is reliable and most that exist are routine announcements. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:46, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of SABR regional chapters

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No evidence of any notability for this list as a group. Fram (talk) 09:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Further note from creator: the purpose of the list is to serve as a WP:CFORK for the main article Society for American Baseball Research. So I don't see a problem here. If not kept, however, then at least merge back with main article rather than outright delete. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Wikipedia:Content_forks#List formats, point 4. A list content fork like this one is only acceptable if there are no notability issues. Fram (talk) 10:33, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fram, just giving the reason why I created the page in the first place so users voting have the full picture. There are numerous chapter lists of fraternities and societies and I see this as similar to that. And I also don't want information I transfered from that page and expanded to be lost so this should be merged back to the main article if not kept as a seperate article. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. I see no evidence that individual chapters or the chapters as a group are discussed in secondary, independent sources. This article fails WP:NLIST and, while well-intentioned and informative, Wikipedia is WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:12, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Turkish football clubs in European competitions 1990–1999

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WP:NOTSTATS applies. Article contains no prose/context, no references, and no relevant external links. It's just pure statistics, and adds no value. Useful information that is better contextualized is already available at Turkish football clubs in European competitions. S.A. Julio (talk) 09:38, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge per nom. Giant Snowman 18:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Portuguese football in 2006–07 UEFA competitions

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Content should be merged to 2006–07 in Portuguese football, not notable as its own topic. No other similar articles in this variety exist. WP:NOTSTATS also applies. S.A. Julio (talk) 09:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge per nom. Giant Snowman 18:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mollenkopf

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A small office supply company. All the references about it are press release wire stuff and ultra-low-value business churnalism. I can't find any significant coverage of it in any reliable source. I don't think this company passes WP:NCORP or WP:GNG at all. A PROD on this basis was removed in 2013. There isn't a DE.wikipedia article about it; I don't think there ever has been. Note that there are a couple of other German companies with Mollenkopf in their name, but they're unrelated companies in different markets. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 09:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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SecurityScorecard

AfDs for this article:

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Article recreated recently after Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SecurityScorecard, notability of the company has not meaningfully changed since.

The new version of the article does have more references, however there is still not significant coverage of the company. The Bloomberg article is the most persuasive, however a company closing one significant deal does not clear the WP:NCORP bar. The remaining mentions are all trivial. Brandon (talk) 03:33, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Created with templates {{ORGCRIT assess table}} and {{ORGCRIT assess}}
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor.
Source	Significant coverage?	Secondary?
"Canada Will Use Letter Grades to Assess Companies' Cyber Resilience". Bloomberg.com. 2024-01-11.
"SecurityScorecard Files Suit Against Safe Security". 2024-06-06.
Sawers, Paul (2021-03-18). "Cybersecurity ratings platform SecurityScorecard raises $180M". VentureBeat.	WP:ORGTRIV: capital transaction
Sawers, Paul (2017-10-12). "Cybersecurity risk-monitoring platform SecurityScorecard raises $27.5 million from Nokia, GV, Intel, Sequoia, others". VentureBeat.	WP:ORGTRIV: capital transaction
"Top three use cases for streaming data pipelines - what, how, why". diginomica.com. 2023-07-31.	Trivial mention of SecureScorecard as an example of a streaming data pipeline
Sawers, Paul (2021-05-12). "SecurityScorecard taps HackerOne to bring bug bounty data to security ratings". VentureBeat.
Maundrill, Beth (2023-12-01). "How TUI Group Strengthened its Third-Party Risk Management". Infosecurity Magazine.		Customer testimonial
Pasternack, Alex (March 3, 2023). "10 Most Innovative Companies in Security of 2023". Fast Company.	WP:ORGTRIV: "inclusion in lists of similar organizations"
Gallagher, Sean (2015-09-11). "MIT ranks high in bad security at major universities". Ars Technica.	Article is about the security posture of MIT, no significant coverage of the company itself
Newman, Lily Hay. "All the Ways US Government Cybersecurity Falls Flat". Wired. ISSN 1059-1028.	Article is about the security posture of the US government, no significant coverage of the company itself

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Delete per nom. OhHaiMark (talk) 03:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Delete G4. Mccapra (talk) 05:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Bloomberg, Fastcompany, Atstechnica, and CyberExpress together are good enough for me. Better Nuncio (talk) 08:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The sources almost exclusively only provide trivial coverage of the company, I've added a source assessment table to demonstrate this. For example, the Fast Company article is a textbook example of WP:ORGTRIV: "inclusion in lists of similar organizations, particularly in "best of", "top 100", "fastest growing" or similar lists." Brandon (talk) 14:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment as article's AfC reviewer. I am withdrawing my decision, and keeping this open to others' input. While I originally thought this might have been a pretty good article, I understand the other viewpoints. I give partial support to remove this article per WP:ORGTRIV, which I think is a viable reason. OnlyNano^talk 12:57, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The company is covered in tons of sources and even several pages of books if you search on Google. The venture beat articles look like funding notices but the articles are quite in depth and I think Bloomberg along with plenty of sources online make this a very notable company. SunnyScion (talk) 15:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:56, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I disagree with the nominator's assessment of the Bloomberg and Fast Company sources. Both provide WP:SIGCOV of the company. The Fast Company source is a list, but it's not an ORGTRIV-excluded list; it includes several paragraphs of discussion about the company. I'm not sure an adequate WP:BEFORE search was done, either, as there are many SIGCOV sources not included in the article; see Bloomberg BusinessWeek, CFO magazine, eWeek, and Risk Management magazine. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I see more than enough sources, several of which were highlighted in the table. Bloomberg is pretty significant coverage, at least to me. Sir MemeGod  21:56, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lincoln cent mintage figures

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No evidence of any notability for this WP:NOTSTATS list, fails WP:LISTN. Fram (talk) 08:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Also nominated:

Merge with United States cent mintage figures as a WP:ATD. If that page is also non-notable it should be added to the deletion. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:36, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As the creator, it should be noted that I split this article off from United States cent mintage figures per WP:SIZESPLIT. I have no preference for deleting or keeping the article, so long as the same is done to United States cent mintage figures. However, I am opposed to merging it back into the parent article. - ZLEA _T\^C 12:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I've added United States cent mintage figures to the nomination! Fram (talk) 13:23, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rusty Shoop

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Another dime-a-dozen TV weatherman article, with hardly any content since its 2008 creation that fails to establish why subject is notable. Sources before and after death are primary, with no viable third-party coverage. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 08:23, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at the Golden 1 Center

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the Golden 1 Center (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Significant referencing problems. mikeblas (talk) 15:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: These three sources (all independent, secondary, and reliable) collate entries of this list topic together as a group, thus satisfying WP:NLIST criteria. Left guide (talk) 21:32, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These are just schedules (and they only cover 2024), so they don't satisfy WP:NLIST because they're not significant coverage. -- mikeblas (talk) 17:22, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You have a point; I hadn't previously inspected the sources in that manner, but now I have. In that light, delete. Left guide (talk) 23:24, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at the Olimpiyskiy Stadium

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the Olimpiyskiy Stadium (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. No inclusion criteria, very weak referencing. mikeblas (talk) 14:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at AsiaWorld–Expo

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at AsiaWorld–Expo (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 14:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at Liverpool Arena

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Liverpool Arena (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 14:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at Movistar Arena (Buenos Aires)

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Movistar Arena (Buenos Aires) (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Contains only events since the end of 2019, only concerts. Completely unreferenced. mikeblas (talk) 14:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at Central Harbourfront Event Space

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Central Harbourfront Event Space (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Weakly defined inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 14:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at Civic Arena (Pittsburgh, PA)

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Civic Arena (Pittsburgh, PA) (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Weakly defined inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 14:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Why isn't the list notable as a group? There are other arenas of similar size listed that have similar lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lists_of_events_by_venue Jasonstru (talk) 17:22, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at the Toyota Center

AfDs for this article:

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the Toyota Center (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 13:51, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Yonas Maynas

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not reliable article per WP:BIO or General Notability Moarnighar (talk) 13:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment The nominator is currently under ANI review for questionable editing behavior. -- GreenC 17:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Cai Haojian

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played a couple of minutes in the Chinese Super League, as well as a loan in the third league. Sources are WP:ROUTINE and I don't see anything else that can help it pass. Geschichte (talk) 07:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Kang Dong-gu

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Short career in the K-league, some games in semi-pro lower divisions. Geschichte (talk) 07:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ahn Seok-ho

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No indication of meeting WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT, tagged as BLP lacking sources for 15 years. PROD has been tried before. Geschichte (talk) 07:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Evelina Bertoli

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: I added several citations to the stub-article, and some content. There are dozens more articles at OAsport (it) over several years. I think she medalled 2nd in a 2020 championship [21], and another. On quick look, it seems she was the highest ranking rider for the Italy eventing team at Paris 2024, and you don't get to the Olympics unless you already have a good competition record. I'll take a closer look later when I have more time. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 15:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:49, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Dealing with Italian-only articles has been difficult, but I was able to find out some more information which I added to the article. From what I was able to find and understand, I would say that Bertoli likely meets notability standards regardless of my amateur attempts at rummaging through Italian articles. Still probably rated as a stub-level article, it is much improved over the version that was AfD'd. [22] ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 06:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Jennie (dog)

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Not inherently notable, happy to merge with Steve Darling. Bringing to AFD as I'm not sure if I'm missing something that makes this notable enough for it's own article. Lordseriouspig 07:49, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The sources aren't discussing Jennie independently from Steve Darling. There's not much to merge either, since the main points are already covered in that article. hinnk (talk) 08:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete/merge Not independently notable from Steve Darling. Reywas92^Talk 14:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, as article creator- I'm not strongly opposed to a merge but I created a separate article because the level of sustained media coverage over time is indicative of independent notability, e.g. this Sky News segment from two days ago in which she was the primary focus- most media focus is very much primarily focused on Jennie, rather than primarily focused on Steve Darling and discussing her only as an aside. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 17:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/merge This doesn't feel like the subject of a separate page, and it's unlikely to be expandable either without resorting to puffery. --gilgongo (talk) 06:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"She is not the first guide dog to serve in Westminster, as House of Lords members Baron Blunkett and Baron Holmes of Richmond also use guide dogs in the chamber.[4]"

where is the wiki page for themTravelrisk (talk) 14:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Agreed with the above that there is nothing to show that she has any notability of her own, independent of her owner, and as all of the main points are covered already in Steve Darling's article, there is no need for a merge. I have no objections to having it Redirect to Steve Darling as well, if others think that would be useful. Rorshacma (talk) 16:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Without more support for Keep, the options here are Deletion or Merger. Let's give this discussion a few more days.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:47, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Redirect to Steve Darling]. Although the sources on Jennie are good and they seem to meet WP:GNG, there isn't much content to warrant a separate article. She is adequately covered in the Steve Darling article, which can be expanded if more information about her becomes available.DesiMoore (talk) 20:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Ruane (poker player)

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Succeeds WP:BLP1E and quite possibly also WP:SPORTCRIT with two major cashes let alone being at the final table of the Main Event (the world's biggest poker tournament). PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Kristian P. Lusardi

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:CRIMINAL. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Move~~ to Christian Lusardi and leave a redirect. More sources available when you search for his "other" name - Christian Lusardi. PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC) (I'm striking your duplicate vote as I assume the most recent one is your current opinion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC))[reply]

PsychoticIncall, "Move" is not a possible AFD closure as it is an editing decision. If you are interested in that outcome, you have to vote to "Keep" and then have a Move discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Plenty of sources at his "other" name. PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Clapton Kibonge

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Declined G4. Article was previously deleted under a different name at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mugisha Emmanuel. Subject does not seem notable enough for a standalone article, at least not at this time, and clearly fails WP:NACTOR. CycloneYoris ^talk! 05:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The Show (band)

AfDs for this article:

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No appearance of notability. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 05:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom and WP:GNG. Lots of information here, but trying to verify any of it turns up crickets. Article was written by a 1-edit SPA apparently to promote a 2016 tour, and has remained essentialy unchanged ever since—except for adding even more promotional material, this time in support of a new venture involving the band's front men. StonyBrook _babble 12:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Visakhapatnam Metro

AfDs for this article:

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Never actually took implementation stages. Politician dream. WP:TOOSOON. No developments from a very long time. Also this article says no metro to Visakhapatnam.- https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/politics/040821/no-vizag-vijayawada-metro-rail-for-now.html. Thewikizoomer (talk) 05:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of speculations within the article as well. Thewikizoomer (talk) 05:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Already at AFD so Soft Deletion is not an option,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vijayawada Metro

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Never actually took implementation stages. Politician dream. WP:TOOSOON. No developments from a very long time. Thewikizoomer (talk) 05:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also this article says no metro to Vijayawada. Thewikizoomer (talk) 05:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of speculations within the article as well. Thewikizoomer (talk) 05:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Next Manipur Legislative Assembly election

AfDs for this article:

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Deleted in May, recreated and speedy deletion refused on basis of "new" sourcing. However, the sourcing in the article does not indicate anything of substance about the next election. The Hindu article simply notes a quote from one politican saying they should win the 2027 election. Sangai Express has nothing. North East Today quotes a politican indicating they will field candidates in 2027. Simple evidence that an election will occur in future is not enough to satisfy notability criteria. At this point, fails WP:NEVENT, WP:GNG and WP:CRYSTAL. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 04:18, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Politics, and Manipur. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:23, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete It’s a future event which has no set date, but which is possibly years away, with no absolutely set candidates, and nothing but guesswork in sources.

Absurdum4242 (talk) 17:42, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Already at AFD before so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How to $ell Your Wargame Design

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I believe this article fails WP:NBOOK. Aside from the one source listed in the article, a detailed search shows no other coverage of this book. If that one source wasn't listed, it would be hard to prove this book even exists. SJD Willoughby (talk) 04:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 09:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/redirect to Lou Zocchi per Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion. The only source I could find was this review in Space Gamer. A second source would allow the book to meet Wikipedia:Notability (books)#Criteria.
A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow editors to selectively merge any content that can be reliably sourced to the target article. A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow the redirect to be undone if significant coverage in reliable sources is found in the future. Cunard (talk) 10:24, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Navaratnalu

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Looks like a complete advertisement. Complete promotional, appears to be a political advertisement done in favour of a political party and its leader.

Looks like a pamphlet for the political party. Thewikizoomer (talk) 04:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Melvin Storer

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Being mistakenly reported killed during the attack on Pearl Harbor doesn't make this sailor notable (unless he was supposedly killed by the Germans). Clarityfiend (talk) 02:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Military, California, and Oregon. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete as WP:BIO1E, despite some coverage. Mztourist (talk) 05:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Yes non-notable person. Xegma(talk) 06:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or Redirect coverage passes GNG: The Oregon Daily Journal 2 3, The Oregonian 2, Herald and News ~~and also meets WP:ANYBIO with the Asiatic–Pacific Campaign Medal. 1~~ but also a case of WP:BIO1E. The Attack on Pearl Harbor could be an appropriate place for a redirect, but the subject does have enough WP:SIGCOV at Newspapers.com to justify a standalone article.

Filmforme (talk) 06:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A low-level decoration does not confer notability. Only the Medal of Honor, Victoria Cross, or multiple second-level awards do that. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Literally millions of Americans were awarded the Asiatic–Pacific Campaign Medal. Best, GPL93 (talk) 12:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying. What about the Bronze Star? Filmforme (talk) 15:45, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is not a blanket campaign level medal, but still well below the ANYBIO line which is generally the highest military honor awarded by the subject's nation. Additionally, it appears he was not actually awarded the Bronze Star Medal but rather had bronze service stars on his campaign medal which denote how many specific operations or campaigns participated in within the overall Pacific campaign. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:BIO1E. Best, GPL93 (talk) 12:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:GNG. He was involved in two events: the attack on Pearl Harbor and the salvage effort (which I consider deserves its own article even though it has not got one). WP:BIO1E is a guideline that provides advice but does not trump WP:SUMMARY, which says that sections of long articles can be spun off into their own articles. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He didn’t play a notable role in either event, though. And it is still an event and the aftermath of the event. All we have is quick (1-2 paragraph) snippets in local newspapers (ie: "local man re-enlists") except for his mistakenly being reported dead for six days (which still garnered only local coverage). This was incredibly common at the time. Best, GPL93 (talk) 01:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete An ordinary sailor, doing ordinary things.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 04:47, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have been updating the article, including more information I've found at Newspapers.com. There's no question the subject passes WP:GNG, but it is my observation that some may not agree of the reason why he was written about, and not that this isn't a notable topic according to WP:NEXIST.

Storer was not the only one who was considered lost in the attack and later found alive. But it should be noted that his family and home state of Oregon was not notified he survived for weeks, only after they had a funeral service involving Portland's Mayor. The ordeal of Storer initially being lost during a heavily covered historic event is what likely triggered the WP:SIGCOV from media once it turned out he had survived. In addition, he has a first hand account and unique perspective of his own experience, and his involvement with the salvage afterwards.

As for WP:BIO1E, this is a unique case and I agree with @Hawkeye7 that Attack on Pearl Harbor is a long article to consider a redirect. The subject meets WP:NBASIC, though a shorter article covering Storer and others in similar circumstances would be suitable too. WP:PSEUDO applies here and there is coverage on the subject unrelated to the attack: to their expertise as a diver searching for people that were believed to have drowned. 1 2 3 –Filmforme (talk) 22:50, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Rather routine military career (that is rather briefly described here) and after the war doesn't seem to be much more notable. Reported as passing away Pearl Harbour, then surviving is more of a trivia item than a notable item for wikipedia. Oaktree b (talk) 01:02, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: A lot of additional sourcing was added since this article's nomination. I'd appreciate editors reviewing the article now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jeremy Curl

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Jeremy curl

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Lack of notability Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:37, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete yes mostly the sections are unsourced. Xegma(talk) 03:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have added sources and more about his recent film on AppleTV 31.217.244.67 (talk) 14:42, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, a lot of content was added to this article after its nomination. Could editors review the additions?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:27, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GTC FX

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It does not meet the notability guideline for companies. Some of the sources in the article are questionable. Frost 03:15, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Finance, Companies, and United Arab Emirates. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - does not meet NCORP — MaxnaCarta ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - as said above, does not meet WP:NCORP Mia ^{a data witch (chat)} 12:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Other competitors already have their own entries. User:Martinolau 16:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mister Venezuela 2005

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A beauty pageant that fails WP:NEVENT. All sourcing is from either the pageant organizer or from bellezavenezolana.net. My analysis that this is a self published source has found at least one other editor in concurrence at RSN. Best to WP:TNT and start over if any good sources exist; my Spanish skills are nil and I haven't been able to find them. The article used to have more sources but they were invariably blogs and other SPS material. Here is a link to the prior revision before they were removed. ☆ Bri (talk) 03:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related page because of basically the same sourcing issue (save for two citations attesting that one of the contestants is gay):

Signed for bundling ☆ Bri (talk) 03:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Beauty pageants, and Venezuela. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:20, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per above!. No independent coverage in RS. Alon9393 (talk) 16:54, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 03:02, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Alberto Fujimori

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Single event, unlikely to garner more details (that would arguably add to the lack of notability of the event), already covered in Fujimori's page. Fails WP:1E, WP:GNG. Cabrils (talk) 02:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Events, and Peru. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete pointless stub. No scope for expansion and not even worth redirecting IMV. Mccapra (talk) 05:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and expand It is highly notable, but just needs an expansion. dunno if a convict will have a state funeral, but that is notable iniself.Sportsnut24 (talk) 05:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

:Keep and wait it's likely that the consequences of Fujimori's death will be notable; he will be getting a state funeral per El País and there will be more to come. If by the end of the seven days there's nothing notable that's happened, then I'll change my vote. Jaguarnik (talk) 07:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Completely sufficient to cover this in the main article. Violates WP:NOTNEWS. Having a state funeral (or not) is in no way a reason for a content fork. Geschichte (talk) 07:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The man has just died, there's little point in nominating the article now, how big the event will be is WP:CRYSTAL. Besides, the article passes WP:GNG and the funeral itself and its aftermath are yet to happen. I would like to point out that this isn’t just any state funeral; this was one of if not the most influential figure in Peruvian politics and across Latin America. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The guy may be influential, but the circumstances of death doesn't really ring much. If it were an extraordinary COD it may have passed GNG. As for the funeral it is WP:CRYSTAL. Borgenland (talk) 08:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keepwithout prejudice to re-nominating later or userfying if it turns out there's not much to say.~~

In my experience, these notnews/crystal deletions are typically pointless -- the news keeps rolling in, and the article gets edited, until it's clear whether it's notable. The deletion rationale seems simple at the front end, but trying to discuss notability as new articles get added daily is like trying to sweep back the tides ("relisting, anyone care to comment on the new sources identified above?")

merge to Alberto Fujimori. Very little of note was reported around his funeral; it appears no attendance or accolades from world leaders; nothing significant surrounding the event itself. Oblivy (talk) 09:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per Jaguarnik's article assuring a state funeral. It’s not just the death, it’s the event, and who shows up. All will be reported. Hyperbolick (talk) 09:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Completely sufficient to cover this in the main article. --UpEpSilon (talk) 10:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: And Wait. Let's see how this story develops Warm Regards, Miminity (talk) (contribs) 14:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Main article can easily cover this. "Death of [Person]" articles do not need to exist separately from biographical articles that the person already had — they're created only where the death itself is a notable event but the person was not independently notable enough to get a conventional biographical article at all, meaning that they exist instead of a biographical article about the dead person, not as a supplement to a biographical article about the dead person. The deaths of already-notable people with biographical articles are covered in the biographical article, not in separate death-of spinoffs. Bearcat (talk) 14:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Although there's WP:SIGCOV, Fujimori already has an article. There's no need for a second one detailing his death - all new information can be added to the main article.--DesiMoore (talk) 15:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/delete Yet another absurd rush to create separate and redundant pages. Add content to Alberto Fujimori#Illness and death, then propose a split if there's sufficient content. The main article also has a whole Legacy section that would cover how people react to his death. If you think the main article is too long, move other content to the several existing subarticles rather than jumping to make another. Reywas92^Talk 17:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as there is in fact scope for expansion and Fujimori was a notable political figure. Jang317 (talk) 18:46, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notable political figures who already had biographical articles do not get their deaths spun off to separate "death of notable figure" articles — "Death of X" articles exist only for people who were not already notable in life so that the death itself is their entire basis for notability, and people who were already notable in life have their deaths covered in the biographical article rather than in a separate content fork. Bearcat (talk) 22:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this meant to be opinion or a statement of policy/guidelines/consensus? There many articles, for example Death and state funeral of Ruhollah Khomeini, Death of Li Keqiang, Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II and so on, for people who were extremely notable in life. I'm not arguing for WP:OTHER, but I genuinely wonder if what you are saying is a policy, guideline, or even a consensus in the community.

N.B. [[Category:Deaths and funerals of politicians]] appears to support my point above about apparent lack of consensus for the position that these articles are not for people who were famous in life. Oblivy (talk) 22:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – An event that had repercussions throughout South America. Svartner (talk) 10:15, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/delete - Death by old age is not unusual, its not like an assassination or a suicide. Reactions to his death are better included at his own article to boost the Legacy section to tell us what impact he had - these reactions are not to his death but to him as a person (whether positive or negative). While there will be a state funeral, it does not seem like the type of long-term ceremonies that were held for people like Queen Elizabeth II (like at Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II). So most of this content is either already in the bio article or can be easily merged, and a separate article is unnecessary. --Masem (t) 12:25, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as a separate article for the death of a state leader feels unnecessary. Unless more specific information is released that deems this article to be noteworthy, the information presented within this article would fit best with the original Alberto Fujimori article.--Ch3sp1n13 (talk) 10:11, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Article has been sufficiently expanded. Ian P. Tetriss (talk) 00:46, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - Article does seem relevant, however the fact that it died by old age it’s not notable and the funeral and aftermath can be easily merged in the main article. Protoeus (talk) 01:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, expanded. RodRabelo7 (talk) 01:59, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Article now renamed by me to Death and state funeral of Alberto Fujimori. State funeral has happened. Hyperbolick (talk) 02:26, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep The death of a notorious president. ArionStar (talk) 07:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - A important event. Many other "Death of ____" articles exist. This isn't just the death of a random diplomat. It is the former President of Peru, who is notorious. Wheatley2 (speak to me) (watch me) 09:01, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Sure he was famous/infamous/notorious but I don't see anything about his death that merits its own article. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 09:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge / Delete The manner of his death was not newsworthy in itself, the funeral will be covered, but IMHO doesn’t need its own page when it can be used to cap off the main page about him instead.

Absurdum4242 (talk) 17:45, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep : I think this a Wikipedia-worthy article. The death of a president, in this case an authoritarian leader who had a lot of controversies while he ruled seems like a notable topic to me. Similarly, the future events as regards his funeral is also something to look out for given his legacies. Instead of a deletion nomination, I’ll suggest the article is kept and developed as more eventful information unfolds.additional comment the funeral held already but I’ll still retain my ‘keep-vote’.

Mevoelo (talk) 02:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep death of a famous president and public figure, as well as his state funeral Scuba 14:51, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Everyone's making crap up again. There is no guideline that says state funerals are entitled to standalone articles. The content about the president's death can be covered in the president's own article. Reywas92^Talk 20:04, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, the state funeral itself is a significant event for a controversial autocrat. Altorespite 🌿 18:31, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting this discussion. While we have had great participation here, almost every editor is focusing on the wrong question, whether or not you, as a person, think this event "deserves" an article. That factor is not important here. We assess discussions based on policies that are relevant and just as importantly, what reliable sources support. This article has been expanded since its nomination but I see no editors providing a review of the sources. This is what is needed to determine its notability, not opinions on whether or not this is an important event. Also, please do not move this article during this AFD discussion, or closure tools, XFDcloser can't decipher what to do when the page title of the article is different from the one at the top of this discussion page.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:41, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge back into original article, leaving no redirect. Hey, a notable person (we went to the same university) dies; there is a funeral, etc. But that does not in any way justify a separate article about the guy dying. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There's nothing notable about Fujimori's death. Most of the coverage just mentions that the guy died, with details being about his career, not the death or funeral. Cortador (talk) 21:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge 18 of the 39 sources discuss his funeral/national mourning in Peru, and 11 of the sources talk about the reactions to his death, so I would not say that the death lacks notable coverage, but his death was very ordinary and will not have sustained coverage; most of the details can be added to his article. Jaguarnik (talk) 21:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Diamond

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Questionable notability for Australian bureaucrat. Most sources discuss the RTBU rather than Diamond. Insufficient WP:RS to meet WP:ANYBIO. Cabrils (talk) 02:40, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Law, and Australia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:22, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Profile is sufficing the WP:BLP and WP:Notability. As per the WRS, here's the link providing his mentions on multiple government official websites as well as on Parliament of New South Wales' official website. Article can be made concise rejecting the poorly sourced information. Here are the links below I have found during research validating his notability.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/rail-unions-given-24-hours-to-call-off-industrial-action-20220901-p5bepf.html

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/06/sydney-train-strikes-union-boss-hopes-federal-intervention-puts-go-slow-on-nsw-government-action

https://www.rtbu.org.au/mark_diamond_appointed_as_new_rtbu_national_secretary

https://www.rtbu.org.au/who_s_who

https://www.actu.org.au/directory/rail-tram-and-bus-union-rtbu-national-office/

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/dominic-perrottet-told-to-call-gladys-berejiklian-as-rail-feud-continues/news-story/12176af725b86627d3612ee8ee0a7586

https://www.rtbu.org.au/national_council_2023_wrap

https://rtbuexpress.com.au/rtbu-owned-training-organisation/

https://www.rtbu.org.au/resignation_of_national_secretary_mark_diamond

https://www.railexpress.com.au/rtbu-appoints-new-national-secretary/

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/compromise-in-the-jobs-summit-confrontation-in-the-foyer-20220901-p5bemu.html

https://www.fullyloaded.com.au/rtbu-names-new-national-secretary/

https://www.busnews.com.au/rtbu-says-federal-budget-a-turning-point-in-public-transport-funding/

https://www.themandarin.com.au/198708-perrottet-and-rtbu-attend-summit-as-industrial-actions-continue/

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/organisations/registered-orgs/139v-r2022-201.pdf

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Hansard/Pages/HansardResult.aspx#/docid/HANSARD-1820781676-96367

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/01/dummy-spitting-nsw-government-gives-rail-union-24-hours-to-end-industrial-action

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-21/wallan-train-derailment-union-says-track-awaiting-maintenance/11987230

Tamaraharon (talk) 17:58, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

rtbu.org.au would be a primary source. LibStar (talk) 03:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. It would be helpful to get an assessment on this huge list of links so we know whether or not they are reliable. Tamaraharon, it would be helpful if you made this live, active links.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:33, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I had looked at this article when it was first listed, and found many of the sources identified by @Tamaraharon so this was quick work. Aside from the primary sources, these are mostly just Diamond being quoted in an article which I don't think qualifies for notability.

I see one source that qualifies for notability in the whole pile -- the Sydney Morning Herald article, #11 below -- which can be seen as significant and independent coverage from a major news outlet. The Guardian article #16 has a bit of editorial independence but it's really short - basically quoting him and then quoting someone reacting to him.

[23] - quoting MD only
[24] - quoting MD only
[25] - primary
[26] - primary
[27] - doesn't mention MD
[28] - quoting extensively with some editorial independence (but no independent reporting about Diamond)
[29] - primary
[30] - primary
[31] - primary
[32] - all material about him is from RBTU employee, lacks independence
[33] - independent, significant, about Diamond
[34] - same as railexpress.com.au article #10, lacks independence
[35] - quoting MD only
[36] - mention only
[37] - all material about him is from RBTU employee, lacks independence
[38] - quoting MD, plus very brief coverage
[39] - quoting MD only

Oblivy (talk) 13:39, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I highly doubt your assessment of sources because the pages that you published, you have cited primary sources, even press releases of the same company website. Here's the example Tam Jai Noodle#cite note-10 , Tam Jai Noodle#cite note-11, High Sierra Music Festival#cite note-2, High Sierra Music Festival#cite note-3. In fact, most of the sources in your pages are weakest and lack reliability so i believe your assessment of sources on Mark Diamond page is bias. Tamaraharon (talk) 17:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Article should be converted to a stub using only independent reliable sources. This justifies WP:Notability. Chris.lee auth (talk) 18:04, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep: Primary sources usage does not consent lack of notability. Profile has moderate recognition on gov website of Parliament of New South Wales. Subject has historical relevance.

Rpgea (talk) 22:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Hemshin

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Fail to see how this is notable. Whole article is probably WP:SYNTH. Creator of this article conveniently added no pages for the citations, and when I looked into one of two of them (can't access the other, though it is likely the same case), I found no mention about this event [40]. I'm not surprised, since they also misused citations at Han–Xiongnu War (215 BC–200 BC) [41] [42] HistoryofIran (talk) 02:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, History, Military, and Turkey. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

52/17 rule

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This is primary research self-published in advertising blogs (WP:PRIMARY, WP:BLOGS). However, a couple of independent, non-scientific publications (The Atlantic, Washington Post; see refs 14 and 16 in article) picked it up and published their own short articles mentioning it, so I guess that notability is somewhat murky. Antispasm (talk) 02:07, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I believe the above that this is all self-published content. I can't find any reliable source that takes this seriously. No employer is going to allow a 17 minute break after every 52 minutes. — Maile (talk) 03:16, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Psychology-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:12, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all the sources are really only so so but they used a lot of academic articles in an attempt to make it appear legit. Also this is a first for me but there's a fake citation! Rosenbaum & Heidary 2014 is not a real article, if you follow the DOI it takes you to Vachon, Lynam, and Johnson 2014. If you Google the title of the article it only returns the 52/17 page. Dr vulpes (Talk) 06:18, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Rosenbaum, D. A.; Heidary, R. (2014). "The perilous lure of the multitasking myth". Journal of Experimental Psychology: General. 143 (2): 731–738. doi:10.1037/a0035236. PMID 24364745.
- Vachon, David D.; Lynam, Donald R.; Johnson, Jarrod A. (2014). "The (non)relation between empathy and aggression: Surprising results from a meta-analysis". Psychological Bulletin. 140 (3): 751–773. doi:10.1037/a0035236. ISSN 1939-1455.

Dr vulpes (Talk) 06:18, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Persikasa Sarolangun

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Fails WP:GNG guidelines, and I can find no non-passing coverage. Will retract if sources are found. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 01:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SouthSouthNorth

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Fails WP:NORG. No in-depth coverage in independent, reliable sources. C F A 💬 01:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Richard Fontaine

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Despite being a prolific writer of op-eds and magazine articles, Fontaine is not himself the subject of any WP:SIGCOV in independent, reliable sources. (The closest example is a press release-based WP:ROUTINE article about his appointment as president of CNAS.) As a result, there's no pass of WP:GNG or WP:NBIO. No other SNGs appear to apply. Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:59, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors and Louisiana. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Impasse (comics)

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An incredibly minor fictional character that, from what I can tell, only appeared in one, single issue of a comic. The one non-primary source being used in the article simply summarizes the plot of that single appearance. Searches turned up absolutely nothing else, not even brief mentions, on the character in reliable sources. Even fan wikis like the Marvel Database don't have an entry on the character. The character is as completely non-notable as a fictional character can possibly be, and is a complete failure of the WP:GNG. Rorshacma (talk) 00:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Comics and animation. Rorshacma (talk) 00:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge & Redirect to List of Luke Cage and Iron Fist supporting characters due to lack of notability. The new article has her listed but she is one of the few characters without a description, which this merge can solve
SJD Willoughby (talk) 00:51, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I touched upon this in another similar AFD earlier today, but this particular case is a even bigger example of why a Merge to that article is improper. A throwaway adversary that appeared in one issue of a comic is not a "supporting character" of Iron Fist and Luke Cage. Listing the character on that page as if they were is outright misleading. Rorshacma (talk) 01:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That specific problem could be solved by choosing a different suitable merge target, List of Marvel Comics characters: I, or by changing the title of List of Luke Cage and Iron Fist supporting characters to simpler (and less ambiguous?) List of Luke Cage and Iron Fist characters. Either way would be fine with me. Daranios (talk) 15:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of where it is, a completely inconsequential character that made one single-issue appearance is too non-notable to be merged or mentioned anywhere. The very act of covering the character on Wikipedia in any capacity would create more notability for the character than actually exists. Rorshacma (talk) 16:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is a different objection from "listing him under supporting characters is misleading". The fact that the character has received its own entry in the specialized Encyclopedia of Super-Villains (although that one differs somewhat in nature to our encyclopedia here) in my view gives him enough notability, obviously not for a stand-alone article, but for a two-sentence summary in a list. And that view is not based on personal evaluation of the primary material. It's also one common way lists work. And I don't see a benefit in not having this condensed information. Daranios (talk) 10:40, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete so non-notable we honestly don't even need a mention. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 00:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to List of Luke Cage and Iron Fist supporting characters. BOZ (talk) 01:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of Luke Cage and Iron Fist supporting characters. Does not seem notable in itself, but target can be improved by content based on a secondary source present here. Daranios (talk) 10:49, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete One-off characters aren't supporting characters and (generally) don't deserve a mention. – sgeureka ^t•c 12:15, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This doesn't deserve a mention and editors wouldn't search for "Impasse (comics)" anyway. Jontesta (talk) 18:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About one person does per day. So not many, but also not noone. And WP:REDIRECTSARECHEAP. Daranios (talk) 10:40, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I do not see it necessary for this to exist and so without encyclopedic context my decision is to eliminate. Alon9393 (talk) 05:24, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with List of Marvel Comics characters: I. --Rtkat3 (talk) 17:16, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. This doesn't have enough coverage to support even a mention. But I'd accept a redirect and a brief mention for the sake of WP:CONSENSUS and WP:ATD. Shooterwalker (talk) 18:26, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as arguments are divided between Delete and Merge.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: For those on the fence, merge is a valid outcome despite some contrary responses above - see this and this recent AFD. BOZ (talk) 03:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Notability has not been demonstrated. Cortador (talk) 21:09, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gold Apollo AR924

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Doesn't seem to pass WP:NPRODUCT. Seems only notable within the context of the 2024 Lebanon pager explosions, and doesn't appear to warrant a standalone article. Article did not exist prior to the explosions, nor seemingly any reliable sources covering it, failing the "sustained coverage" requirement of NPRODUCT. Hemiauchenia (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Products, Technology, Taiwan, Lebanon, and Hungary. Hemiauchenia (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Copying here what I wrote when I WP:PRODded this article yesterday:

This particular model of pager seems to be notable only in the context of the 2024 Lebanon pager explosions. I can find no mention of "Gold Apollo AR-924," "Gold Apollo AR924" or "Gold Apollo AR" outside of news sources reporting the Israeli bombings. "Gold Apollo pager" returns only results for these news articles, the company's website, patent documents, and similar. The sources currently cited at the article fail the criteria for addressing the article topic "directly," as in the "significant coverage" criteria of WP:GNG.

While the particular model of pager is likely to receive a good amount of (temporary) media scrutiny from a few outlets, this will likely be only in the context of the above-mentioned bombings. Although WP:SUSTAINED does not apply to non-BLP articles, WP:NPRODUCT does, and although secondary sources refer to this particular device, there seems to be no claim to notability outside of this single event, for which we already have an article. Thus, I believe this article fails to establish notability for the topic, and our status as not an indiscriminate collection of information is applicable. Evan ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No other model of pager produced by the company exists on Wikipedia, information related to this product should be at most made a small section on the manufacturer's page. Beyond recent events, it is otherwise completely irrelevant to anything other than the company. JohnWarosa (talk) 01:21, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete was a completely non-notable model of pager until this recent news story. Andre🚐 01:24, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ → Speedy keep. This is a weapon used in an attack. With up to 4000 victims, the event can have multiple articles. Possibly move to BAC Consulting. The technical details of the pager are not important, but the supply chain is. Note, that other weapons (talkie-talkies) were also used in the attack. The key question the article needs to answer is who made the pagers and who is responsible for their safety, Gold Apollo or BAC Consulting. Protecting Gold Apollo from bad publicity is not a reason for deleting the article. If they go bankrupt because of this, they fully deserve it. They had a responsibility to protect their trade mark.

P.S. - Wikipedia has an article on Stuxnet, but no article on the attack itself or the damage it caused. The Stuxnet article focuses on the weapon and on how it was delivered. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is very flawed. The weapon was the explosives. Stuxnet was specific malware that exploited four zero day Windows vulnerabilities, and the article is about the engineered malware, and not about the model of USB drive it initially infected. But also that argument is off the point. The pager product is only notable if there are reliable independent secondary sources that significantly discuss the pager (not the attack, but the actual pager). Do we have any such sources? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Petri Krohn; There is an article for the attack itself. Parham wiki (talk) 13:31, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am now changing my !vote to speedy keep. It is becoming evident that the AR924 was not just some random Gold Apollo pager intercepted by Mossad (presumedly), but it was designed and manufactured by the Israelis using the Hungarian company BAC Consulting as a front. This implies that this was a multi-year Israeli operation, started in 2022 at the latest. This covert operation is distinct from the bloodshed that happened in Lebanon this week. I am redirecting BAC Consulting, to the article, as evidently the fake company had no other purpose than to produce these killer pagers.

@Parham wiki; Thank you for the link to Operation Olympic Games. In the Stuxnet case the article on the weapon is ten times as long as the article on the attack itself. I believe we will see a similar trend here. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:41, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. - Someone has stated Draft:BAC Consulting. I have suggested that it be merged to Gold Apollo AR924. The company is a fake front, established solely to produce the AR924 killer pagers. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You should only bold one of your keeps. By convention at AfD we only bold our !votes once. Also you have not specified a speedy criterion. I don't think any are eligible. I think you mean you are moving from keep to keep. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Gold Apollo#2024 Israeli tampering and explosions in Lebanon per WP:REDUNDANTFORK, WP:SPINOUT, and WP:LENGTH. The parent article has existed since 2014 and has plenty of room to house this information, which is already there in its essential form. No need to delete this highly searchable term since it is a verified product which has been rendered notable by recent events. Havradim leaf a message 01:57, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Many thousands of these devices exploded the other day, injuring, maiming or killing nearly 3000 people. This device is now by far the most notable pager/beeper ever made. This device is at the very center of one of the most dramatic and historic espionage and irregular warfare operations in human history that is certain to be studied and analyzed for many years to come. Already, numerous reliable sources worldwide are discussing this device in great detail, and it boggles my mind that some editors think that this article should be summarily removed. Cullen328 (talk) 08:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The flaw in this argument is that the exact make and model of pager that was manipulated does not provide justification for an article. Similarly, we have Bulgarian umbrella that details how umbrellas have been rebuilt into a murder weapon - but without creating an article on the actual model of umbrella that was modified - exactly because the make and model of the modified implement does not in itself provide it with notability. Lklundin (talk) 11:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that the discussion of this device and the supply chain should be in the main explosion article, which is currently a small fraction of the size that would warrant a WP:SIZESPLIT. Hemiauchenia (talk) 13:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per arguments of Cullen328. PhotographyEdits (talk) 09:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per the arguments of Cullen328 the information about the attack is highly important. A separate article on the pager that itself is notable only for the attack prevents a centralized and well organized presentation of the information on these explosions. Lklundin (talk) 09:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or move to BAC page. Please count my vote. Flegozoff (talk) 12:04, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Votes are not counted, consensus is determined based on the strength of arguments. PhotographyEdits (talk) 12:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The event is a historical first time. This product became important, indeed people looked on Wikipedia for this article (and it is good that they found it).Sinucep (talk) 14:09, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The device is notable. Whether or not it was notable a week ago is irrelevant. —danhash (talk) 14:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is it? What sources do we have? I asked this above and so far we have been presented with no sources to consider. We are looking for significant coverage of the product in multiple reliable independent secondary sources. No amount of saying it is notable is good enough. Where are the sources? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are currently 19 sources on the article —danhash (talk) 16:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which of these meet WP:NPRODUCT and WP:SIRS? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:44, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

keep I am a deletionist when it comes to mobiles, and similar devices. But as this device was a centre/key point in a major attack, many reliable sources have covered the device significantly (thus meeting WP:significant coverage) making it pass the WP:GNG, so it doesn't have to pass WP:NPRODUCT specifically. —usernamekiran (talk) 19:58, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There are already articles for both the attack and the company who had the pager manufactured. Some information could go there. There are a lot of sources mentioning the pager, but only in the context of the attack. Specific coverage is lacking. Cortador (talk) 21:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Société Angélique

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A couple passing references do not make this a real thing... as I wrote on the TP, there's no serious scholarship that I can find on this subject... there seems to be a curious conflation of a geographical name in Lyon (Angélique, cf. this article) with a coterie/cenacle of humanists that really did exist... An article of interest: https://www.jstor.org/stable/20673401 (which pretty much categorically debunks the existence of this "secret society"). -- SashiRolls ^{🌿 · 🍥} 22:16, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]